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Popular demand poll: 2 new ball bowlers for India All Time Test XI
- Thread starter weldone
- Start date
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Nissar and Singh for me. Kapil might open too, but he'll get in as the all rounder/third fast bowler. If a bowler like Srinath makes it in, it would be ridiculous for an all time side. We might as well open with a spinner who'll be useful later on.
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weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Choose the two you think should open the bowling even if they are al-rounders...Others will fight for the 4th bowler spot...
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Yea, these two would be fine. Kapil will get in later.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
You seem to have unnerving faith in bowlers who you have never seen bowl, bowled on uncovered pitches and bowled in an era of a lack of professionalism having played most of their games in Indian FC cricket which to this day is still quite a low standard in many places. Len Hutton's "There is no better bowler in the world today than Amar Singh,'' quote is invaluable in rating Amar Singh but the reference of 7 Tests is hardly much to make such a bold statement, adding to the fact that it may have been a stretched statement since it was made to the Indian media.
What makes you so confident of their abilities?
PS: Not doubting their abilities, but questioning how you know of them.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Amar Singh and Nissar were widely lauded in England, which was the pre-eminent tournament in their time with the best players. Amar played against some of the best players of the time, and did extremely well - he led the county charts for a period, which is very impressive considering a couple of the other names playing at the time.
Considering the choices we have in this poll, it would be absolutely mind boggling to vote for such comparative trash. It's not that I am saying Amar Singh was Malcolm Marshall, but I do know what Srinath was very clearly, and all time material he is not. Amar Singh should win it on his merits, but compared to Srinath, he should win it just by default.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Although I am outright piss poor at hypothetical situations, Srinath had been timed at 150kph on occasions in the mid 1990s, wouldn't this have been absolutely unplayable on the pitches (especially the English ones) of the 1930s?
No doubt about your above reasoning, btw.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
No. There were guys that were pretty fast back then. Srinath lacked the variety to trouble the best batsmen on the flat pitches of the era (the 30s were a time of very flat pitches too).
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Cricinfo lists both at 'fast-medium' which certainly states that there were faster bowlers. Whereas Srinath was medium pace by the end of his career, both Nissar and Singh would be remembered from their prime and clearly, the judgement is that there were faster bowlers in that era. I am intrigued about 'flat pitches of the era', my club does not have any covers and I haven't experienced more than three weeks on the trot of flat pitches, nevermind a decade of mostly flat pitches.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Nissar was more express than Singh, but guys like Larwood were definitely faster. I don't really understand what your point is though? What does speed have to do with this?
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
My point is that Srinath's pace would have had the potential to put him in similar esteem on uncovered pitches than Nissar or Singh. Nissar and Singh's comparitively poor economy rates signals that accuracy was neither's strong suit and reports that I have read indicate that their strength was cut and seam, neither of which would have much effect on the large proportion of the wickets of today.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Why don't you vote in this poll?
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Why? 150 is nice, but not exceptional, and he only reached that for a very very brief period. He was usually around 140.
You're always going to get arguments about whose field we play with, whose equipment we play with, and even whose rules we play with. If we play with the enviornment of 1930s, Amar Singh would have it. If we play with the environment of the 90s, Amar Singh would still have it, because Srinath was crap, but it would be closer.
I hate making generalizations, but I cannot fathom anyone who watched cricket in the 90s voting for Srinath in an all time side. I just can't. He did a job, and did it fine, but this is an all time side, and you're going up aganist other all time sides. Srinath vs. Bradman, and Hobbs and Sobers? I'd rather play an extra batsman or a spinner.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Trying to form an informed decision with the help of the knowledgable SS.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Hmmmm.....
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
150kph is pretty exceptional. Especially considering that it was one isolated tour and many bowlers in the 1990s and 2000s only reached 150kph in one or two series (and in some cases, balls) throughout their careers.
I haven't voted for Srinath, but you seem adament of Nissar and Singh's ability and I was just curious as to why - I have got my answer. Btw, I didn't watch Srinath bowl too much in the 1990s as I started watching cricket mainly in 1997 as an England fan, not an India fan and only became a 'religious' watcher after the infamous Natwest Series Final. You seem to harshly underrate Srinath, imo though. His numbers are not too bad and from the limited which I have seen, he looked to be a good seam bowler who had an outstanding ability considering the state of pitches in India in the 1990s for seam bowlers. It is well noted by me that this is an ability rather than a skill since his record outside India is somewhat poorer than in it.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
This is a good description of Srinath in short, his abilities and his limitations...
ret
International Debutant
on Srinath .... he was uni-dimentional but pacy when he stared out .... he used to bowl that incoming balls consistently [a la Imran Khan] .... then, he developed the outgoing delivery, along the one that just holds its line, which made him effective .... he was also one of those bowlers who focused a lot on line and length in the later part of his career
his spell at A'bad against RSA was a gem .... it was for the first time, i saw an Indian quick bowler wreck the opposition on his own
his true value shows up when we measure him against his peers in other teams like in Australia, RSA and Pak for example .... there was hardly a time when he looked inferior to the bowlers in the opposition, esp when you consider the opening attack of the teams mentioned
playing against
Australia ---> 30 wkts in 11 matches
RSA ----> 64 wkts in 13 matches
Pak ----> 17 wkts in 3 matches
iirc, he mostly played in an era when the spinners dominated in Ind but he still used to knock the top order and set it up for the spinners .... definitely, an all-time Indian X1 prospect
his spell at A'bad against RSA was a gem .... it was for the first time, i saw an Indian quick bowler wreck the opposition on his own
his true value shows up when we measure him against his peers in other teams like in Australia, RSA and Pak for example .... there was hardly a time when he looked inferior to the bowlers in the opposition, esp when you consider the opening attack of the teams mentioned
playing against
Australia ---> 30 wkts in 11 matches
RSA ----> 64 wkts in 13 matches
Pak ----> 17 wkts in 3 matches
iirc, he mostly played in an era when the spinners dominated in Ind but he still used to knock the top order and set it up for the spinners .... definitely, an all-time Indian X1 prospect