Why are England not in the top 3 teams of test cricket ?

[Salamuddin]

The general feeling in the cricket community is that England's first class system is only bettered by Australia's.

If that's the case, why are England not even in the top three test teams in the world ?

 

[Craig]

Take your pick really. Rubbish players, Kolpaks, too many counties, journeymen cricketers who float around different counties despite not being good enough.

 

[sanga1337]

Kolpak players (although this can also be a good thing), too many county teams, not the most mentally tough team going around, not as popular as soccer etc.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

They're English.

 

[silentstriker]

See, I don't mind foreign players - I think they elevate the level of competition, which is only a good thing for developing players. As long as 6-7 of the playing eleven are home grown, I don't think its a problem.

With that said, from what little I know, it seems the problem is that of the talent being spread too thin, as well as counties thinking their main purpose is themselves, instead of producing players for the national side.

 

[Salamuddin]

I think its a talent issue...

England don't produce as much quality talent as other countries IMO.

Let's face it....Pietersen is the most outstanding batsman they've had in years and he's not even a product of the English system.
Freddy and Simon Jones are probably their only other "world class" talents and both have had their fair shared of problems and have not played regularly.
Apart from those three, England don't have any other standouts ....the rest of the players are average to decent...nothing more.

I think its an issue even at grassroots level....I was at the u-19 wc earlier this year and I saw some outstanding players from India, South Africa , West Indies , Pakistan and Australia. England had some decent prospects like Harris and Finn but no-one that really made observers sit up and take notice.
Billy Godleman was talked of as their outstanding young batsman but he looked decidely average when compared to the likes of Vandiar and Umer Akmal.

I personally think some England fans have unrealistic expectations of their side. They'll be a competitive outfit at best but I don't think they'll be right up there challenging for the best in the world - because the raw ability isn't there - pure and simple.


And I'm not sure England's domestic system is a great gauge ....there are a plot of guys plying their trade who have no ambition of playing for England.
Furthermore, is their domestic system really that great a preparation ground ? Their A team toured India earlier this year and they were losing to domestic sides over there.

 

[fredfertang]

We're fine thanks gents - as the difference between the pre and post Pietersen performances show there is nothing fundamentally wrong its just a question of fine tuning management, captaincy and tactics.

 

[BoyBrumby]

The utter hegemony of association football probably doesn't help either. Unless you've lived in the UK it's pretty hard to describe how much it dominates sports coverage up here.

We're **** at that too, like, but our footballers are richly rewarded for their steadfast mediocrity.

 

[bryce]

If I was a English cricket supporter I doubt i'd be complaining right now. Wasn't it so long ago when they were ranked 7th in Tests?

 

[sledger]

 

[pup11]

AWTA.

 

[Flem274*]

a) County Cricket at this point in time may not be as good as everyone thinks it is.

b) They haven't won enough games.

 

[Richard]

I think its a talent issue...

Well, that might be over-simplifying it, but it's a quality-of-player issue, clearly. Basic natural attributes (ie, height, speed of arm, calibre of hand-eye coordination, ability to bowl the ball in the area you're aiming at, ability to play correctly the shot you're attempting to play and ability to select the right shot with regularity) aren't in short supply - they can't be with a population as large as the UK's.

The trouble is, obviously, lack of participation and lack of good-quality coaching and selection. If the sport was more widely popular clearly there'd be far more good players, especially if selection and coaching was of good quality.

You see such basic errors made in the coaching of international players (Andrew Flintoff's bowling action having an ankle simply begging to cause a recurring injury) and the selection of them (Darren Pattinson being one of the most recent examples). And you think if this sort of thing happens at the international level, just imagine how much worse it can be lower down.

 

[Flem274*]

I like the thread starters avatar

 

[four_or_six]

Not really a problem if we aren't in the top three teams atm. It's not long ago that we were 2nd, and I'm sure it won't be long until we're back in the top three again. We've just had a nightmare injury phase / players retiring... it takes a while for things to bed back in.

Flintoff, Trescothick, Vaughan, Simon Jones, Harmison just for a start... we've had to do without all for significant periods of time and losing that kind of quality will have an impact on any team for a short while.

 

[Richard]

No, sorry, Harmison not playing was not a loss of quality.

 

[four_or_six]

No, sorry, Harmison not playing was not a loss of quality.

So it hasn't benefited the team since he's been back fit and on form?

 

[Richard]

Given that this so far "amounts" to 1 (dead) Test where he did less well than several other bowlers... no, I don't. Not at all. Nor do I think it very likely that it will in future.

As I've said many times, there's a good few people who expect Harmison to be something he simply is not capable of being IMO. People who just think he can be a far better bowler than he can be.

 

[four_or_six]

Given that this so far "amounts" to 1 (dead) Test where he did less well than several other bowlers... no, I don't. Not at all. Nor do I think it very likely that it will in future.

As I've said many times, there's a good few people who expect Harmison to be something he simply is not capable of being IMO. People who just think he can be a far better bowler than he can be.

I don't think he's brilliant or anything... it's just that the loss of him on top of everyone else hasn't exactly helped our results since we were no.2 in the world.

 

[Richard]

I think had he played every game since July 2004 it'd probably have made our results even worse.

For instance, I think it highly unlikely he'd have bowled as well as Chris Tremlett did against India in 2007.