Future changes to Aussie team

[Oli]

There have obviously been some selection mistakes in this Indian series. Some suggestions for future changes to the Australian Test Team. Any ideas?

Firstly, Aust. need a young spinner desperately. I think Dan Cullen could fill this role.
He has just got something about him, some energy that you need in a spinner to set them apart from the average bowler. He took a 3 for the other day to get him back in form.
With a few senior matches under his belt i think he will be a gun (and he has the shane warne blonde hair!).

Shaun Tait was impressive in his return for Australia A, and needs to be considered again for selection, especially if there is no improvement from Lee.

Hilfenhaus takes wickets with the new ball, something which the current bowlers have been unable to do.

My preferred team:

Hayden
S.Marsh
Ponting(c)
Hussey
Voges
Clarke
Ronchi+
Cullen
Lee
Clark
Tait
12th-Hilfenhaus/Johnson

Im sure there are many other changes u can think of.

 

[Richard]

How on Earth is Shaun Marsh supposed to have any case to leapfrog Jaques? It's bad enough that Katich has, never mind someone else doing the same again. Jaques averages 50 since coming into the team and has effectively been penalised for Hayden getting injured.

How on Earth, meanwhile, is a decent middle-of-the-road batsman like Voges supposed to be a better middle-order pick than Katich, Hodge and David Hussey? Or even Symonds - if it's judged that he's served his time, he should come straight back in. If he's judged to be never worthy to play again, that should be made clear soon too.

And how does Ronchi have the remotest of cases to be better with bat or gloves than Haddin?

And Daniel Cullen might do well to get into SA's team before he can think about Australia's. Needing a young spinner doesn't mean you can just create one by picking the next person who hasn't done woefully of late. And I don't see anything to suggest Australia need a spinner at all.

 

[Prince EWS]

How on Earth is Shaun Marsh supposed to have any case to leapfrog Jaques? It's bad enough that Katich has, never mind someone else doing the same again. Jaques averages 50 since coming into the team and has effectively been penalised for Hayden getting injured.

How on Earth, meanwhile, is a decent middle-of-the-road batsman like Voges supposed to be a better middle-order pick than Katich, Hodge and David Hussey? Or even Symonds - if it's judged that he's served his time, he should come straight back in. If he's judged to be never worthy to play again, that should be made clear soon too.

And how does Ronchi have the remotest of cases to be better with bat or gloves than Haddin?

And Daniel Cullen might do well to get into SA's team before he can think about Australia's. Needing a young spinner doesn't mean you can just create one by picking the next person who hasn't done woefully of late. And I don't see anything to suggest Australia need a spinner at all.

Spot.

 

[Athlai]

Why is Johnson being chucked? He's done better than Lee.

 

[Richard]

Yeah Johnson is yet to be either World-beater or shocker - his Tests so far have seen him do enough to keep his slot and no more than that. If a player performs as he has for his first year in Test cricket that's a decent introduction and one that's earned some more opportunities.

However if his next year produces a best of 5-91 and repeated instances of one reasonable Test followed by one moderate-to-poor one, then it's time to start asking a few questions. But only then.

If Tait comes back in to the side sometime in 2008/09, it should be as a fourth seamer. No questions asked.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah Johnson is yet to be either World-beater or shocker - his Tests so far have seen him do enough to keep his slot and no more than that. If a player performs as he has for his first year in Test cricket that's a decent introduction and one that's earned some more opportunities.

However if his next year produces a best of 5-91 and repeated instances of one reasonable Test followed by one moderate-to-poor one, then it's time to start asking a few questions. But only then.

If Tait comes back in to the side sometime in 2008/09, it should be as a fourth seamer. No questions asked.

I like the sound of Tait as a fourth seamer, but for what happened last time they tried it. The one current bowler in the world I'd least like to face.

 

[Matt79]

Selection mistakes? Like what? Picking White after our first two choices for the spinners slot for this series retired, our next option dislocated his shoulder-blade, and our fourth pick was struggling to come to grips with the condition. White at the end of last summer was really our third-fifth option as a spinner - you pick the fifth best spinner in ANY country that plays cricket and you'll struggle.

Hilfy won't swing the ball in these conditions. No-one is consistently generating regular swing. And Tait is nowhere near ready for this kind of situation, plus he's yet to show he's got what it takes when he's had a chance.

Siddle's done alright for a debutant on a flat-ish pitch in an attack where no-one else has had any success.

And Watson has been the one change to the team that's paid off so far.

The problem isn't with selection. Its with the performances of those who were selected. Changing the team won't fix anything when those who'd come in are worse players.

@Rich - he's probably discounting Jaques because he's injured.

 

[Richard]

I like the sound of Tait as a fourth seamer, but for what happened last time they tried it. The one current bowler in the world I'd least like to face.

BTSOT the last time they tried it Tait was already suffering badly in the head. I don't think there's any serious precedent there.

We've seen from the Trescothick case that recovery from that sort of thing is far from straightforward and no-one should be taking it for granted that Tait is going to be back to "normal" at any point. But we can only guess at what seems to be the case, and if there's no obvious effects of the problem at the current time and Tait doesn't feel any are likely to reappear currently, he should be straight back in the side in place of White the moment the team is back in Australia.

Tait was clearly far short of Test-class in 2005 and was of doubtful mindset in 2007/08 - 2008/09 should hopefully be time to see whether he truly can hack it or not and I hope he's given the whole summer (injury permitting) unless his performances are truly woeful.

@ Matt - Jaques' injury isn't a really serious long-term problem is it?

 

[Matt79]

BTSOT the last time they tried it Tait was already suffering badly in the head. I don't think there's any serious precedent there.

We've seen from the Trescothick case that recovery from that sort of thing is far from straightforward and no-one should be taking it for granted that Tait is going to be back to "normal" at any point. But we can only guess at what seems to be the case, and if there's no obvious effects of the problem at the current time and Tait doesn't feel any are likely to reappear currently, he should be straight back in the side in place of White the moment the team is back in Australia.

Tait was clearly far short of Test-class in 2005 and was of doubtful mindset in 2007/08 - 2008/09 should hopefully be time to see whether he truly can hack it or not and I hope he's given the whole summer (injury permitting) unless his performances are truly woeful.

@ Matt - Jaques' injury isn't a really serious long-term problem is it?

Well, he's out for at least all of this series, so hence maybe the suggestion of Marsh for the next test.

I don't think the current situation is the ideal one to test Tait's durability - let's see how he goes in a Test in Australia first, rather than in adverse conditions against a team that's smashing us at the moment, with a heap of pressure on him. Can't nurse him all his career, but we can at least give him a fair chance to climb back up on the horse.

 

[pup11]

There is a heavy SAian bias in Oli' prospective changes to the Australian side considering he is from Adelaide, but there is no way Tait or Cullen are anyway near the Aussie test side atm, and what the hell has Voges done to deserve a national call-up.

This is the kind of Australian team i would like to see against NZ

1.M.Hayden
2.P.Jaques
3.R.Ponting
4.M.Hussey
5.M.Clarke
6.S.Watson/ A.Symonds
7.B.Haddin
8.B.Lee
9.M.Johnson
10.B.McGain/ Beau Casson (if McGain doesn't recover from surgery)
11.S.Clark
12.A.Noffke/ Doug Bollinger

 

[Redbacks]

There is a heavy SA bais in Oli prospective changes to the Australian side condidering he is from Adeliade, but there is no way Tait or Cullen are anyway near the Aussie test side atm, and what the hell has Voges done to deserve a national call-up.

This is the kind of Australian team i would like to see against NZ

1.M.Hayden
2.P.Jaques
3.R.Ponting
4.M.Hussey
5.M.Clarke
6.S.Watson/ A.Symonds
7.B.Haddin
8.B.Lee
9.M.Johnson
10.B.McGain/ Beau Casson (if McGain doesn't recover from surgery)
11.S.Clark
12.A.Noffke/ Doug Bollinger

in my opinion there was not enough if an SA bias

all seemed a bit doomsday to me

 

[social]

How on Earth is Shaun Marsh supposed to have any case to leapfrog Jaques? It's bad enough that Katich has, never mind someone else doing the same again. Jaques averages 50 since coming into the team and has effectively been penalised for Hayden getting injured.

How on Earth, meanwhile, is a decent middle-of-the-road batsman like Voges supposed to be a better middle-order pick than Katich, Hodge and David Hussey? Or even Symonds - if it's judged that he's served his time, he should come straight back in. If he's judged to be never worthy to play again, that should be made clear soon too.

And how does Ronchi have the remotest of cases to be better with bat or gloves than Haddin?

And Daniel Cullen might do well to get into SA's team before he can think about Australia's. Needing a young spinner doesn't mean you can just create one by picking the next person who hasn't done woefully of late. And I don't see anything to suggest Australia need a spinner at all.

Nearly 70,000 posts up and we finally agree

 

[masterblaster]

Some people are being way too tough on Cameron White here. He's tried his absolute best and to be honest, Ricky hasn't shown him much respect either. With a bit of work bowling more regularly for Victoria I'm sure he can turn into a really useful leg spinner all rounder.

 

[Richard]

Thing is though, White's gone backwards in his Vic career, rather than forwards. The reason Ponting has bowled him so little is probably the same reason he bowled himself so little last season and the season before - his bowling just doesn't do much to engender confidence.

It's a pretty basic premise of: if you want to bowl, you need to bowl well.

 

[masterblaster]

Thing is though, White's gone backwards in his Vic career, rather than forwards. The reason Ponting has bowled him so little is probably the same reason he bowled himself so little last season and the season before - his bowling just doesn't do much to engender confidence.

It's a pretty basic premise of: if you want to bowl, you need to bowl well.

Absolutely right. But what I've seen of him, he's not been the god awful leg spinner that everyone thought he'd be. He's been more than useful. Sure not in the same class as a Warne, Harbhajan or Kumble but he's been useful. If he realises that the only way into the Australian test team is by being a leg spinner, he's naturally going to take strides in becoming a better leg spinner.

He might need to tweak his action a bit so that he actually gets some turn, and he should also bowl himself a little more during the domestic season. As a batsman alone, he's a terrific addition lower down the order. I've seen many Victorian games here and I've always thought he's a very talented cricketer.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He might need to tweak his action a bit so that he actually gets some turn.

You see, to me, that's a pretty major flaw for a leg spinner.

 

[masterblaster]

You see, to me, that's a pretty major flaw for a leg spinner.

Absolutely, but his role would probably be more to contain batsmen and play the role of a defensive leg spinner who offers some variety, while adding a lot of depth to the Aussies batting order. I don't really see another spinner apart from Bryce McGain who would be a better choice than White, mainly because of the other great aspects White brings into the team.

I wasn't too impressed with Casson in the West Indies. With a bit of work on his bowling, White could be a really useful player as he is already a pretty solid batsman and has a decent cricketing mind as well.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Absolutely, but his role would probably be more to contain batsmen and play the role of a defensive leg spinner who offers some variety, while adding a lot of depth to the Aussies batting order. I don't really see another spinner apart from Bryce McGain who would be a better choice than White, mainly because of the other great aspects White brings into the team.

I wasn't too impressed with Casson in the West Indies. With a bit of work on his bowling, White could be a really useful player as he is already a pretty solid batsman and has a decent cricketing mind as well.

What is the point in selecting a "defensive leg spinner" when you have options in Symonds (if deemed fine to continue) and Hodge who could provide spin, beside Michael Clarke and Simon Katich, and also strengthen the batting far further than a hitter like White would?

The extra batting given there surely outweighs any extra control or threat given by White (first class average 39). That or you can select another strike seamer (i.e. Tait) and bowl your quick men in shorter spells. Right now, White is not a valid Test-level pick as either a batsman or a bowler: he is being carried in almost all the innings Australia play.

 

[pup11]

Absolutely, but his role would probably be more to contain batsmen and play the role of a defensive leg spinner who offers some variety, while adding a lot of depth to the Aussies batting order. I don't really see another spinner apart from Bryce McGain who would be a better choice than White, mainly because of the other great aspects White brings into the team.

I wasn't too impressed with Casson in the West Indies. With a bit of work on his bowling, White could be a really useful player as he is already a pretty solid batsman and has a decent cricketing mind as well.

White himself doesn't have much respect for his bowling so i fail to see how others are really gonna respect his leg-spin, his accuracy on the Indian tour has been impressive, he has a decent wrong'un that turns , but he isn't going to trouble any quality batsmen with what he currently has, if he has any serious ambition of being a decent leg-spinner then he has to come up with a new improved bowling action until he does that there isn't much hope for him.

I think after McGain, Casson and White are the wrist-spinners and Dan Cullen and Nathan Hauritz are the finger-spinners (yeah i know that's not great quality, but that's all we have) that Australia can work on and hope they improve with some proper guidance, until then McGain can work as a stop-gap arrangement.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Why is Nathan Bracken nowhere in the reckoning for the test side?