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england's post ashes arrogance

nibbs

International Captain
how much longer can it last? i don't think it can go on for much longer judging by recent results. it seems to me that every game/series they partake in at the moment is constantly overhyped. the cricinfo team (not sure about the cricketweb team :happy: ) seems rate each match more incredible than the next, despite most of these matches being non-events. yeh

debate
 

nibbs

International Captain
now come on, i think you guys had have overreacted and are pretty much out of line, especially eddie. voltman, i've followed a lot of cricket since the ashes and i just feel that the english cricket team have just done nothing out of the ordinary in that time. lets face it. the only reason they managed to win the ashes was because the australians were out of sink at the time. i think had that series been played a year earlier england would have been beaten. having said other factors were different then, but Australia weren't at full strength. the end result is that we're now faced with this out of control bandwagon, that isn't going to cease to exist until some other english sporting team does something significant. perhaps, england winning the fifa world cup in a couple of months time would be a good thing afterall. then things will hopefully return to normal and all the bandwagon boys will go elsewhere
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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nibbs said:
now come on, i think you guys had have overreacted and are pretty much out of line, especially eddie. voltman, i've followed a lot of cricket since the ashes and i just feel that the english cricket team have just done nothing out of the ordinary in that time. lets face it. the only reason they managed to win the ashes was because the australians were out of sink at the time. i think had that series been played a year earlier england would have been beaten. having said other factors were different then, but Australia weren't at full strength. the end result is that we're now faced with this out of control bandwagon, that isn't going to cease to exist until some other english sporting team does something significant. perhaps, england winning the fifa world cup in a couple of months time would be a good thing afterall. then things will hopefully return to normal and all the bandwagon boys will go elsewhere
Oh wait... so it's the Ashes that you didn't watch. Well that explains it all really.

Of course it was nothing more than a mediocre performance that saw England fairly dominate two Tests in India, winning one and being denied in the other. Mind that they were also missing Vaughan, Giles and Trescothick and serving under a first time captain. That said, England only avoided defeat in India because India was out of "sink". Had India been fully fit and...oh...wait a minute...

Get off it Nibbs. Rubbish.
 

Blaze

Banned
I have to agree with Nibbs, England are supposed to lose, it's the way it is meant to be in every sport. When they win something my life doesn't feel normal.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
nibbs said:
now come on, i think you guys had have overreacted and are pretty much out of line, especially eddie. voltman, i've followed a lot of cricket since the ashes and i just feel that the english cricket team have just done nothing out of the ordinary in that time. lets face it. the only reason they managed to win the ashes was because the australians were out of sink at the time. i think had that series been played a year earlier england would have been beaten. having said other factors were different then, but Australia weren't at full strength. the end result is that we're now faced with this out of control bandwagon, that isn't going to cease to exist until some other english sporting team does something significant. perhaps, england winning the fifa world cup in a couple of months time would be a good thing afterall. then things will hopefully return to normal and all the bandwagon boys will go elsewhere
This is the Sheep Dip I was alluding to, but now I come to think about it, your normal sort makes sense.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Blaze said:
I have to agree with Nibbs, England are supposed to lose, it's the way it is meant to be in every sport. When they win something my life doesn't feel normal.
To tell the truth, I agree - used to us being plucky underdogs who occasionally reach semi-finals only to lose to Germany in the penalty shoot-out.

I don't feel comfortable with this, how-you-say, "winning" malarkey. I'm delighted that the tour of the sub-continent has restored my life's natural balance.
 

Natman20

International Debutant
I totally agree with you nibbs. England havn't backed up their Ashes performances and I also think they were playing an out of sink Australia.
 

savill

School Boy/Girl Captain
Originally posted by Nibbs
the only reason they managed to win the ashes was because the australians were out of sink at the time
Yeah that was the reason why. You can imagine the coversation between Punter and Warney after the 5th test...

Warney: I can't see how we lost, we threw everything we had at them...

Ponting: Apart from the kitchen sink... DAMMIT! I knew something was missing.
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
One person writing "sink" is amusing. Two fills me with fear about the quality of the New Zealand education system.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
Blaze said:
I have to agree with Nibbs, England are supposed to lose, it's the way it is meant to be in every sport. When they win something my life doesn't feel normal.
Damn your avatar is so funny :laugh:
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
I think most England fans are being realistic, and acknowledge that the Ashes was a high point for England and a low point for Australia. That's not to say it wasn't deserved, but the results before and since don't really reflect the same strength in each team. Still, it's been two tough tours to the subcontinent for England, against good sides and with injury troubles, so you can't be too harsh on a loss and a draw, especially with both series being consistently competitive.

I think it's obvious now that England's middle order batting is a bit of a worry. Bell/Pietersen/Collingwood/Flintoff isn't a lineup which is going to strike fear in many opposition sides, and even when you put Vaughan back in there it's nothing special. Then you've got Jones at 7 who has underperformed terribly with the bat. The bowling is still strong, especially when you put Jones back into the team, but I think any in form pace attack is going to be pretty confident against that batting. It will be interesting to see how it holds up in the next Ashes series compared to the home side, given that Australia from 4 to 7 isn't exactly settled at the moment either.
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
yeah right we have got Arragance

Unlikely we been ***** for a number of years at least lets us have a moment to have our glory at beating the greatest aussie team ever
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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chris.hinton said:
Unlikely we been ***** for a number of years at least lets us have a moment to have our glory at beating the greatest aussie team ever
The team England beat last year was far and away NOT the greatest Aussie team ever.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Oh wait... so it's the Ashes that you didn't watch. Well that explains it all really.

Of course it was nothing more than a mediocre performance that saw England fairly dominate two Tests in India, winning one and being denied in the other. Mind that they were also missing Vaughan, Giles and Trescothick and serving under a first time captain. That said, England only avoided defeat in India because India was out of "sink". Had India been fully fit and...oh...wait a minute...

Get off it Nibbs. Rubbish.
Being denied in the other? Granted they dominated days 2-4 of that match, but they never looked like bowling out India in the 2nd innings. In fact, in the last hour India were the only team who could realistically win the game. The only thing that denied England a win was Dravid and Jaffer's bats.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
chris.hinton said:
yeah right we have got Arragance

Unlikely we been ***** for a number of years at least lets us have a moment to have our glory at beating the greatest aussie team ever
Whilst I agree with the sentiments that bragging-rights were earned for a while, to tell the truth it was a pretty feeble Australian performance with a few notable exceptions - nothing like the 'Greatest Aussie team ever' - rather a team that had grown weary and stale and, dare I say it - complacent and soft?

Hand on heart, will England retain the Ashes this winter? I give us a 33% chance of doing so. Hopefully we've seen enough injuries to key players this winter, but I've a sneaking feeling that even with a full-strength side, the 2006/7 Aussies will be a far tougher proposition than the 2005 vintage. After all, they were pretty badly wounded last summer.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
FaaipDeOiad said:
I think most England fans are being realistic, and acknowledge that the Ashes was a high point for England and a low point for Australia. That's not to say it wasn't deserved, but the results before and since don't really reflect the same strength in each team. Still, it's been two tough tours to the subcontinent for England, against good sides and with injury troubles, so you can't be too harsh on a loss and a draw, especially with both series being consistently competitive.

I think it's obvious now that England's middle order batting is a bit of a worry. Bell/Pietersen/Collingwood/Flintoff isn't a lineup which is going to strike fear in many opposition sides, and even when you put Vaughan back in there it's nothing special. Then you've got Jones at 7 who has underperformed terribly with the bat. The bowling is still strong, especially when you put Jones back into the team, but I think any in form pace attack is going to be pretty confident against that batting. It will be interesting to see how it holds up in the next Ashes series compared to the home side, given that Australia from 4 to 7 isn't exactly settled at the moment either.
Pretty much agree with all of that. There does seem to be something in the English sporting make-up that means we're better at building towards great one-off achievements (see also Union World Cup) rather than sustained excellence over a long period. On the face of it there doesn't seem to be a great deal in common with the two teams: Woodward's England were ageing & certainly on the way down by the time we triumphed; Fletcher's looked to be a (comparatively) young team with more mileage in it. However both great triumphs have seen the rapid break up of the two respective teams.

It's actually quite frightening how few of The Ashes XI were playing in the 3rd test in India. We might reasonably expect Tres & Harmy to be back firing on all cylinders soon, but there's no such guarantee with with Vaughan, Gilo or Jonah.

I have to say tho (and this may be taken as Pommie arrogance, but I'd hope not) that the Pakistani & Indian test series were both pretty splendid contests. We may not have dominated, but there was some great cricket played (fielding excepted) with (IMHO) 5 of the 6 tests having any result possible going into the final day. The second Indian test may be a bit of a stretch, but if we'd put more runs on the board who knows?
 

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