Racism - Social pariah or public consensus?

As a South African with Sri Lankan blood lines living in Sydney you can imagine my dinner is as eclectic as my taste in music, the one thing I do not have a taste for is racism, and alas this is the one thing that has prevented me from barracking for Australia in cricket.

The first cricket match I went to in Australia was in 1998, Sri Lanka vs Australia at the SCG. Great game, Sri Lanka chalked up 270 odd, Gilchrist exploded and the game was over pretty quickly.

During the game I sat within the Sri Lankan contingent of the crowd, on that day I copped more racial taunts than I had ever received in South Africa (Please note my father attended the one day game in Johannesburg on Sri Lanka’s rebel tour, in the midst of apartheid ravaged South Africa, and he said he never heard a single racial taunt at the game) and I’ve watched a fair few games back home.

I went to the India versus Australia new years test, same thing, racism. Sri Lanka versus Australia where Jayasuria and Attapatu pilled on the runs in Sydney, racism. In fact the only game I’ve seen where I haven’t seen, heard, or been subjected to racism in Australia is, wait for it, South Africa versus New Zealand at the SCG.

People then have the audacity to sit back and ask me why I don’t barrack for Australia. I’m sick and tired of the first line of defence being racial vilification.

I’ve seen older south east Asians, people who are actually second generation Australian be subjected to racism, all for what? Having more pigmentation than the next person, if anything it is the racists who lack something.

The straw that broke the camels back has to be what the South African team are going through at the moment. The pain and the wounds that are being opened up by this ignorant, and arrogant minority is ridiculous. These are people with memories of apartheid fresh in their minds, its just not good enough Australia!

Cricket Australia have a responsibility to the world, the fans, immigrant Australians, and above all to the game to stamp this trash out, I’m very, very disappointed, and alas the problem is not limited to the cricket grounds around Australia, it extends to the streets, schools and suburbs too. SHAME ON YOU!

This is a plea to the non racial cricket loving Australian, of which they are many, I am aware this is a minority. Stand and be counted next time you hear, see or are aware of this dispicable behaviour, don't let the world judge you, because in life, as in cricket, people intepret perception as reality.

Regards,

Soapy

I totally agree with you; racism is among the lowest forms of insult. If SA boycott Aus (there's an article on it at Cricinfo) I wouldn't be against it; almost every match this Aussie summer has had complaints of Racism towards both South Africans and Sri Lankans. Totally rudiculous.


P.S; good to hear you didn't get any racism in NZ.

People then have the audacity to sit back and ask me why I don’t barrack for Australia. I’m sick and tired of the first line of defence being racial vilification.

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So your reaction to an acknowledged minority of racists is to tarnish the rest of the country with the same brush by not barracking for Australia? Your argument is muddled; do you actually believe it's a minority or do you believe an entire country is racist so the team representing the whole country (not just the racist minority) doesn't deserve your support? Because you seem to be effectively saying both and they are contradictory. And that's not to mention the inherent logical flaw in assuming that because you didn't see/hear racist-type remarks in a SA vs NZ game, therefore it didn't happen. Ditto for your Dad in SA.

This is a plea to the non racial cricket loving Australian, of which they are many, I am aware this is a minority. Stand and be counted next time you hear, see or are aware of this dispicable behaviour, don't let the world judge you, because in life, as in cricket, people intepret perception as reality.

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And that's pretty much exactly what I do. So do most people I know. So would you, so would most people on this board.

For the record, I'm an Aboriginal/Scot whose Dad is an unfortunate member of the Stolen Generation so I think we get the gist of racism is about. The reality is that it's everywhere. Generally in the minority but in every group there is always that minority.

As for what CA is supposed to do about the current crop, do what they've always done; punish those they catch. Catching them is the tough bit. I work for the Police too so I understand how tough it is to stop any phenomena where human nature is the cuprit.

At the cricket i never heard any rascist taunts and i have been to many games at the SCG- including the ones you have mentioned, but there is rascism in australia quite obviously in a minority

I have a feeling this thread might blow out though

Well it's happening just far too often in this summer for it just to be an isloated minority.

The problem lies in that many aussies go to the game get tanked up and then it's all downhill from there and i mean surely the aussies can do something if this happens

"ICC's Anti-Corruption and Security Unit boss in Australia and New Zealand, was punched after an inebriated spectator reportedly accused him of being South African. The man was later ejected from the ground."

Autobahn said:

Well it's happening just far too often in this summer for it just to be an isloated minority.

The problem lies in that many aussies go to the game get tanked up and then it's all downhill from there and i mean surely the aussies can do something if this happens

"ICC's Anti-Corruption and Security Unit boss in Australia and New Zealand, was punched after an inebriated spectator reportedly accused him of being South African. The man was later ejected from the ground."

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I alluded to it in another thread earlier, but in jest - mob mentality.

It's the same kind of base, moronic behaviour that has pillocks booing a footballer because he is tall and what on the tv sounded like thousands of idiots shouting 'no ball' every time Murali bowled yesterday.

People are morons.

Well it's happening just far too often in this summer for it just to be an isloated minority.

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No, it's just been heavily reported/analysed/dissected this time 'round.

No-one's saying it's just a few people who go to each game with the express intention of abusing people. Relative to the crowd at any given game, it's a minority though. Overt racists, relative to any given population are in the vast minority.

The problem lies in that many aussies go to the game get tanked up and then it's all downhill from there

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Geez, vast generalisation much? Alcohol is a factor but only in loosening the inhibitions of those who hold such views in the first place.

I'm not saying that there's no racism (far from it). It's just that, as usual, the problem is exaggerated. The emphasis should be on obtaining the correct information and then analysing it, not in extrapolation from a limited, non-representative sample. I mean seriously, have a look at the problem; where did South African players wear most abuse in the summer so far? WA. Where did the largest group of post-Apartheid, ex-patriot Afrikaaners end up after migrating here? WA.

Racism is a terrible phenomena to suffer but equally, it's a horrific charge to be tarnished with if you're innocent. All I've seen is exaggerated news stories, random anecdotal quotes from tangentially-related people to the teams/games and vast generalisations. This is an equal but opposite sort of rhetoric which fuels the racism in the first place because, again, the emphasis isn't on evidence but on emotive statements and instead of information 'intelligence' we have dodgy conclusions and subsequent ignorance. On both sides.

I fail to see the point of this... this is heading no where productive.

The worst racial taunts I heard was probably at the 3rd day of the Boxing Day test between India and Australia in 2003. The whole last session was marred between back and forth comments which almost turned into a brawl because some Australian supporter kept touching some guy's Indian flag. The police had to come and fix the situation up. Pretty crappy.

I must admit, I'd find it kind of difficult to support Australia whilst my fellow Indian friend supporting India was receiving racial insults from a crowd of drunken (or sober) idiots around us. Then again what ya gonna do, shouldn't let these idiots run your lives and support your country. *shrugs*

Are the current punishments tough enough? Eviction is obviously strict, but considering running on the field will cost you an arm or a leg, should continous racist remarks (not something like "I wish Gilly would hit a six here to shut this black c-word behind me up" (not that that talk is right or whatever)) should result in a frickin' heavy fine to shut them up.

Top_Cat said:

I'm not saying that there's no racism (far from it). It's just that, as usual, the problem is exaggerated. The emphasis should be on obtaining the correct information and then analysing it, not in extrapolation from a limited, non-representative sample. I mean seriously, have a look at the problem; where did South African players wear most abuse in the summer so far? WA. Where did the largest group of post-Apartheid, ex-patriot Afrikaaners end up after migrating here? WA.

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From the article on Cricinfo:

"The worst incidents occurred during the Test at Perth in December when several players were called "kaffirs" and "kaffir boetties""

This definitely suggests to me that the guilty parties in question are of South African ancestry in one way or another. Even though some of us are well aware of such epithets, this is not the language that would be used by racists here without some South African history. Although this does raise another disturbing issue, one that some of us are unfortunately aware of, and that is that many prejudiced South Africans have seen fit to emigrate here (I know more than a few SA ex-pats, but I don't know of more than a minority {there's that word again, let's hope it's true} who are prejudiced), which would suggest that our society is more conducive to their feelings about racial issues, which is very disheartening to me.

In a more general sense, I have been witness to racial abuse at international cricket games up at the Gabba at least. Mainly the sub-continental teams, I never witnessed it at West Indian games (which is not to say it didn't occur). Mostly childish slurs ie; "curry-muncher" which is about as childish and meaningless as racial abuse gets. If I can identify the idiot, I'll tell him to pull his head out of his **** when it's prudent to do so (If there's two or three of them I really never have the back up to **** off that many drunken yobs, and I'm not a naturally violent person).

But even saying that, I am not at all excited about the officials getting involved. Although we do not have constitutionally protected free speech in this country (we should), I believe it is a freedom worth protecting, even in the case of the most backward thinking idiot. I don't think it generally beneficial to limit speech we might find offensive, even in a technically private, but effectively public forum, such as a sporting arena. I don't like being subject to racial prejudice any more than the players, but I also don't think there is anything to be gained by gagging the offenders. I may not like it, but I accept it as the price of living in a free society.

Cricket Australia have a responsibility to the world, the fans, immigrant Australians, and above all to the game to stamp this trash out, I’m very, very disappointed, and alas the problem is not limited to the cricket grounds around Australia, it extends to the streets, schools and suburbs too. SHAME ON YOU!

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Cricket Australia has no such responsibility.

As long as the racists are doing nothing other than chanting off epithets like kaffir, ****, curry-mucher, blah, blah, blah from the stands the officals shouldn't be allowed to intervene, much less evict the offending parties from the ground.

Free speech is free speech, whether it's in favour of politically and morally correct objectives or against them. It is deplorable behaviour from a strictly moralistic point of view, but making legal provisions against such type of behaviour steps too closely to the grey territory of 'thought crimes.' Just accept it (mouthed racial slurs) as the price you pay for certain other rights and try to counter it through peer pressure, cultural awareness and any other non-legal means.

Hang on, I understand the free speech argument. But punishments are necessary when heavy racist taunts (specifically but not only) aimed towards players are having such a harmful effect on the players (as has been reported, and I am assuming to be true). Complaints are coming in left and right from the boards and players (And Warne's 'blackman' comment towards Ntini, whether referring to Hey Hey Its Saturday or not doesn't help (honestly if you call one of the few black players in the SA team 'blackman' and don't expect them to think its racist you must be one of the biggest idiots, case in point Warne)) so the players are being effected. CA can't just sit back and go "well, free speech you know" if its detrimental to the players.

'Freedom of speech' does not mean that you are free to say what you like - and I am surprised that there are still people who think that it does.

Obviously, it is a gross generalisation to barrack all Aussies as racist directly or indirectly under the guise of 'Aussies behave in racist fashion'.
But I am not very certain that the scumbuckets are a small minority of the populace. If they are, they are then an awfully vocal minority who needs to be shut up. Perhaps a date with a girl or two from another race would be in order.

This definitely suggests to me that the guilty parties in question are of South African ancestry in one way or another. Even though some of us are well aware of such epithets, this is not the language that would be used by racists here without some South African history. Although this does raise another disturbing issue, one that some of us are unfortunately aware of, and that is that many prejudiced South Africans have seen fit to emigrate here (I know more than a few SA ex-pats, but I don't know of more than a minority {there's that word again, let's hope it's true} who are prejudiced), which would suggest that our society is more conducive to their feelings about racial issues, which is very disheartening to me.

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Strictly speaking, 'kaffir' is an arabic term, which means 'unbeliever'. I understand that OZ has seen a huge rise in middle-eastern immigrants. As such, it is likely that some of the oft used arabic words are slowly becomming part of the general vocabulary with the intended connotation not changing by much.
It is much the same with the word 'chootiya' in Canada or Britain. More people of the general populace ( be it home grown white boys or 2nd generation east asians or even the native americans) know the meaning of that term than i've ever seen before.... and 'kaffir' is used just about as liberally in Arabic as 'f*ck' in English or 'chootiya' in Hindi/Urdu.

C_C said:

But I am not very certain that the scumbuckets are a small minority of the populace. If they are, they are then an awfully vocal minority who needs to be shut up.

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Oh come off it - it's a small minority (just like it's a small minority of English who are Football hooligans.

Again you make an attempt to vilify a Western race...

marc71178 said:

Oh come off it - it's a small minority (just like it's a small minority of English who are Football hooligans.

Again you make an attempt to vilify a Western race...

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1. Why is it a 'oh come off it' ? I've heard claims but i've seen little other than claims to suggest the exact extent( or even a ballpark idea) of how deep the rabbit hole goes.Objectively, i've seen more racism stemming out of Australia than anywhere else, save perhaps middle east, israel and down south US of A. I am not invalidating the comments of posters such as Top_Cat, Faaip, etc., merely expressing my skepticism of the extent of this pervasive behaviour that they claim. I've also admitted that it is just an impression and i could be wrong as well- so far i've seen nothing categoric either which way to hold any unwavering view on the extent of racist attitudes in Australia.
But any objective perspective would cast a wary glance towards OZ, given its history-even recent history ( Pauline Hanson, official UN repremand, repeated and catalouged incidents of racism in sporting sphere in OZ, etc). Mind you, a 'wary glance' is not an automatic vilification of OZ and its citizenry, neither is it an automatic assumption on the extent of racism in that nation- all a 'wary glance' signifies, is the phrase 'need more imformation before a solid decision can be reached'.

2. Vilify a 'western race' ? For one, 'the western races' are native americans. For two, race doesnt exist. For three, are you indirectly suggesting that Aus is a white country and where everyone has to tow the 'white line' ? And here i was thinking that OZ was multicultural!
And last, but not the least, i've not made ANY comment pertaining to a particular race.
What you display is your insecurity over the issue and perhaps some residual guilt-factor. A common reaction to racism from most western citizens and how they religiously deny its existance or any initiative towards dealing with it, despite the evidence to the contrary and almost universal consensus about its existance from almost every single minority group present in the west- be it east european/african/middle eastern/native american/south asian/east asian. The overwhelmingly common behaviour is to ignore the issue alltogether- a bit like a child closing his/her eyes and screaming 'go away monster go away monster go away monster'.
Perhaps the guilt factor is too high to discuss this for some western folks without losing their composure.
Perhaps it is also a very emphatic example of a obscurely defined identity and idea of self security.

In regards to your second point CC, I very much doubt Marc has the characteristics of any of those things you implied. I just don't think he likes you

Referring to the 'small' or 'large' minority case, well I'll tell you whilst the occasional racist remark (jokingly or serious) has come my, and I'm guessing most people's way throughout their life, pretty much every day of mine here in Melbourne is a 'racially insulted free day'. Now I'm not the be all and end all, but when referring to outward and overt racists, there is no doubt that they are a very small minority in a population of around 20 mill give or take, and if we're talking just anglo-saxons, then I'm not sure what the population would be but it'd clearly be extremely large as well.

Now quiet or inward racism, well no one really ever knows do they? But they're not the ones making the remarks at cricket games I'd imagine.

In regards to your second point CC, I very much doubt Marc has the characteristics of any of those things you implied. I just don't think he likes you

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Gee. Whatever gave you the idea that he doesnt like me ? I was always under the impression that him and i are like brothers in all but by geneology. I was considering asking him to be the best man at my wedding.


As per whether he has the charecterestics or not, i for one definately think that he displays the common western attitude towards racism - dilligently deny its existance and anyone who makes any comments about it save for 'down with racism' is a racist and has 'colonial hangups'. Ie, in short, the distinct majority behaviour of the majority ethnicity in the west - 'close your eyes, repeat 10 times 'go away monster' and the monster will be gone from your closet'. Nevermind the fact that almost every single ethnic minority in the west ( Indians, native americans, east asians, africans, latin americans, middle easterns, south asians- you name it!) has claimed discrimination against them- despite the fact that these minority groups span the broadest spectrum of human values and interactions and their definitions pertaining to 'race' are often in the most general terms.

As for the rest- they were qualified with 'perhaps', indicative of a probing inquisitiveness rather than profiling him.

Referring to the 'small' or 'large' minority case, well I'll tell you whilst the occasional racist remark (jokingly or serious) has come my, and I'm guessing most people's way throughout their life, pretty much every day of mine here in Melbourne is a 'racially insulted free day'. Now I'm not the be all and end all, but when referring to outward and overt racists, there is no doubt that they are a very small minority in a population of around 20 mill give or take, and if we're talking just anglo-saxons, then I'm not sure what the population would be but it'd clearly be extremely large as well.

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If that is true, then they are an awfully vocal community- like i said, perhaps they need to get laid a few times by girls/guys of other 'racial' origins.
But as for my 'wary eye' comment, i am basing it on my information on this issue.
Every western nation claims 'racists are a deplorable and insignificant minority of our population'....but in some countries (such as the US of A and Australia), i've seen clearly racist people/parties operating on national levels with a support base, i've seen the UN repremand OZ for racist behaviour in its governments as recently as a few years or a decade or so ago, i've seen the issue surface repeatedly in ventures where passions run high, such as sports.
Which is why i am not quite certain ( ie, i am indecisive on this) towards the extent of this behaviour in OZ. When i think of the comment ' racists are a small and insignificant minority of the populace', Canada,Iceland,Norway, New Zealand,etc. comes to mind, where hardly any racist chatter ( either displaying a racist attitude or criticism of a racist incident) hits the headlines and (to my knowledge) hardly has any presence in day-to-day life.
It seems to me that perhaps in OZ it is a bigger problem than Canada/New Zealand/Norway/Iceland/etc. and perhaps it is present much closer to the surface.

I'm inclined to agree with Linda - this is fast turning into Murali II and ought to be closed.