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A Perfect 10

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Robertinho said:
Actually, isn't trying for a drop goal conceding that your attempt at a try would ultimately be unsuccessful and then resorting to trying to get a drop goal? If you think about it, it's very much a failure to score a try (or a goal, in AFL terms).
Agreed - it's a cop-out.

Taking the rugby analogy still further, it's like a Samoan-born rugby player finally deciding that he's not good enough to play for New Zealand so he opts to play for Samoa instead.

Same thing happens with cricket - only England are the beneficiaries of 'former' South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders, etc, but that's not as funny as taking the Mickey out of someone else ;)
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
luckyeddie said:
Agreed - it's a cop-out.

Taking the rugby analogy still further, it's like a Samoan-born rugby player finally deciding that he's not good enough to play for New Zealand so he opts to play for Samoa instead.

Same thing happens with cricket - only England are the beneficiaries of 'former' South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders, etc, but that's not as funny as taking the Mickey out of someone else ;)
Oh God. Volts will be choking on his pint of sheep-dip when he reads that. :laugh:
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
luckyeddie said:
Agreed - it's a cop-out.

Taking the rugby analogy still further, it's like a Samoan-born rugby player finally deciding that he's not good enough to play for New Zealand so he opts to play for Samoa instead.

Same thing happens with cricket - only England are the beneficiaries of 'former' South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders, etc, but that's not as funny as taking the Mickey out of someone else ;)
I should bite, but I won't. I'll let eddie's ignorance on the subject do all the talking for me.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Voltman said:
I should bite, but I won't. I'll let eddie's ignorance on the subject do all the talking for me.
I don't know much about the 15-a-side game so you have an advantage over me, but I sort-of trust my source a bit (he's very passionate, but then again aren't we all?).

A pal of mine told me that there were nine Samoans in the New Zealand squad for the game against Scotland at Murrayfield last year. I do not know on what basis he sought to qualify their nationality, or whether he attempted to verify it.

Now this chap could be mistaken, but he's a journalist (like you) so he is obviously a paragon of virtue (like you). He certainly on occasion talks a pile of steaming droppings, but that comes with the territory I suppose. He is a gardening correspondent. What's your excuse? ;)

If I'm wrong, and it is 'all a bit of a misunderstanding', then of course I shall withdraw the accusation (made in jest as you know). If however I am correct and you are just going to try and weasel out of it with typical journalistic aplomb, then I shall be immensely disappointed but understand.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
A pal of mine told me that there were nine Samoans in the New Zealand squad for the game against Scotland at Murrayfield last year. I do not know on what basis he sought to qualify their nationality, or whether he attempted to verify it.
Your source seems a bit passionate and a bit stupid.

He's obviously decided to qualify their nationality on birth - and he's even got that wrong as you'll soon see. He also appears to have next to no idea of New Zealand's constantly evolving demographic. Auckland is the largest Polynesian city in the world - does your source realise this? Go to suburbs of Auckland such as Otara, Mangere and Grey Lynn and you'd be lucky to see more than five white faces on your way through.

Let's take a look at the squad from that Scotland match:

15. Isaia Toeava: Born in Samoa. I'm not sure when he came over but he played for the NZ Schools in 2003 and has been in NZ teams for the last 3 years.

14: Rico Gear: One English scribe included him in our list of poaches when he was writing about last year's England clash at Twickenham. Perhaps if that scribe had bothered to do some research, he would have discovered that Rico Gear is in fact of Maori, not Tongan extraction, and is born and bred in new Zealand.

13: Conrad Smith: Well, he's white so he can't possibly have been poached - at least that's Fleet Street's take on it. He was born in the Taranaki town of Hawera.

12. Tana Umaga: Another of the Samoans that we're alleged to have poached. Guess what? Jonathan Falefasa Umaga was born in Lower Hutt, Wellington. Yet his brother, also NZ-born, played for Samoa. Who are the real poachers, you may ask, considering Samoa had 14 NZ-born players in their 2003 RWC squad...

11: Joe Rokocoko: Apparently, our scouts are the best in the world. They're so good, they can pick out players of talent from the Fijian Island when the kids are just five and ship them over to NZ, completely and utterly against their will. The Rok came over to NZ when he was 5. That's not a poach, that's simply his family making an economic decision - one that many of the All Blacks' parents have made in the past.

10: Nick Evans: White boy born on the North Shore

9: Piri Weepu: Born and bred in Wainuiomata, Lower Hutt, NZ.

8: Sione Lauaki: Tongan-born, but moved to NZ in his early teens with his family (his brother plays for the Warriors in league).

7: Richie McCaw: born in the town I live in, Oamaru, and is a throwback to All Blacks years gone by, as he grew up on a farm.

6: Angus McDonald: Son of former All Black lock Hamish McDonald, and born in Whangarei.

5: James Ryan: Could have possibly been poached from the Irish, if you check out his red hair, but was born in Christchurch in the South Island.

4: Chris Jack: Also born in Christchurch, and is related on his mother's side to Southland's latest All Black, Clarke Dermody.

3: John Afoa. Ooooh, a Samoan - your source is getting closer. Unfortunately, he was born in Auckland.

2: Anton Oliver: Born in Invercargill, and appears to be hewn from Central Otago stone.

1: Saimone Taumoepeau: Came to New Zealand when he was 17 from Tonga for work. He ended up making boxes in a factory in South Auckland, before he decided to give rugby a crack. He played just up the road from me in South Canterbury before moving back north. Could almost be considered a poach except he didn't come here to play rugby.

Reserves:

16: Andrew Hore: Born in my home town, Dunedin.
17: Neemia Tialata: Another of the "true blue, dinky-di Samoans" to be born in Lower Hutt, Wellington. Oops, your source's figures are looking a bit wonky at this stage.
18: Jason Eaton: Lanky lad from the Mana'Waaatuuu (as Bill McLaren would say)
19: Mose Tuiali'i: A poach - but by the Cantabs, who stole him from Auckland.
20: Jimmy Cowan: Born in dirty old Gore, which is in Southland. He's Justin Marshall's doppelganger.
21: Leon McDonald: The white/Maori boy affectionately known as Rangi. Born in Blenheim in the northern part of the South Island.
22: Ma'a Nonu: Similar to Tana Umaga in so many ways - size, style of play, they're both of Samoan heritage and they were both born in Wellington.

Let's sum up. One of those players (Toeava) was born in Samoa, another four (Umaga, Nonu, Tialata and Afoa) might claim Samoan heritage (not sure about Tuiali'i), one was born in Fiji and two were born in Tonga.

What many journalists (and as a result, followers of the game) in the UK fail to understand is that many of the Pacific Islanders in New Zealand identify with both what could be considered their ancestral home and their new home, New Zealand, even if they were born and bred here.

There are Samoan and Tongan churches all over New Zealand, and, as I said earlier, the vast, vast majority of players here are here as a result of their parents looking for work. There are certainly some young rugby players who have arrived on scholarships from rugby schools in New Zealand, but only one All Black, Sitiveni Sivivatu, has come through that system. Most of them head back to the islands, rich with rugby knowledge and an education paid for by a New Zealand school.

I trust you won't bring this up again?
 
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luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Voltman said:
I trust you won't bring this up again?
I just weighed your answer as opposed to reading it. Was that ok? It was your first line that basically stopped me in my tracks. Do you always dismiss the opinions of unnamed third parties as 'a bit stupid'?
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Voltman said:
When the following evidence proves that, then yes.
I guess Alan did what many people did then and took another journalist's word for something - always a mistake believing anything a hack writes.... oh, wait!

I'm not trying to do anything other than give you a playful dig in the ribs.

I don't always telegraph my intentions, but I even put a 'winky' on the original message to make that one obvious - and in the same message mentioned that the England cricket team have also not exactly restricted their recruits to the home counties, or even the home countries.

Your reply has now been duly noted and filed under 'P' (for 'Potential wind-up material for the future').
 

archie mac

International Coach
Well the last couple of games I have watched have just confirmed my opinion that Football has a lot in common with pro wrestling, in both sports acting is almost as important as the skills of the contest:@
 

steds

Hall of Fame Member
archie mac said:
Well the last couple of games I have watched have just confirmed my opinion that Football has a lot in common with pro wrestling, in both sports acting is almost as important as the skills of the contest:@
Nah, it's just that footballers are corrupt and greedy and will do anything they can get away with to get that win bonus.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
archie mac said:
Well the last couple of games I have watched have just confirmed my opinion that Football has a lot in common with pro wrestling, in both sports acting is almost as important as the skills of the contest:@
Haha true, except somehow I think a powerbomb is more believable to 'hurt' than a love tap on the shin. ;)
 

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