Hate their personality, love their game.

[cnerd123]

While obviously calling them thugs would be over the top, as I said before, at it's core it's about beating other people up and you need a bit of a nasty streak to do it well, imo. I watch and enjoy MMA and can appreciate the skill they bring. That doesn't mean I find the profession particularly noble.

See, you're wrong about the bolded bit, and here is why.

When you're fighting, you don't see another person there

You see a body and it's movements. he name, face, persona, etc...all that dissolves away. Its just you, your skillsets and gameplans, against this other body that is coming after you.

It's like playing a video game. It's solving a puzzle. It's attempting to find your way around a defence, about defending yourself from attacks, about trying to react to the other body's movements.

And what people get out if it is overcoming the challenge. Getting yourself into fight shape, preparing your A plan, B plan, C plan. And then you go out there, under pressure, with that other body throwing their plans at you, and you try to throw your plans at them and see if you can execute them well, see if they work as well as you thought they would. And then sometimes you get clipped or beat up a bit or taken down, or suddenly you are bleeding or you're in pain and now you dig into your inner resilience. Can you fight back. Can you come up with a new plan on the spot. Did you see something you can exploit. Is your timing on point. Can you keep your cool. And maybe sometimes you're winning and the other body is stalling and holding on, and now you're trying to break them and make them quit, but you also don't want to blow out you gas tank and have to come back next round and face them again. How do you pace yourself, how do you pick your shots, do you just win the round and come back and hope you win the next two.

Again, it is so much more than a drive to beat people up. It really is. You don't need a 'nasty streak' to do it. Trust me when I say that. You may not think you're ever capable of doing it, but that's because you are not in this world. You haven't tried. You can't paint all fighters with the same broad brush. A lot of men and women in MMA are genuinely some of the sweetest people around.

Just like hendrix said, there is nothing unique to MMA compared to any other walk of life. And that's my point. You could argue that you need a nasty streak to succeed in anything, right? In business, in politics, heck even in art. But that doesn't mean good people don't succeed in those fields. Is every fast bowler a nasty person? Is every pro Rugby player a nasty person? Why would you look at MMA and think that it is so special compared to any other walk of life that it alone attracts all the nasty individuals. It doesn't.

 

[Uppercut]

I think a lot of what you say is right, probably because in this instance you aren't talking about cricket.

That aside, my issue with televised MMA such as UFC is pretty much the same as Social's. It's not so much the lack of technique or skill involved, it's the the piling on when your opponent is vulnerable. Now, I agree with you that there is nothing technically wrong with that from a self-defence POV, and as anyone who has done any form of martial art which involves grappling (MMA or otherwise) knows, everyone likes a little ground 'n pound. But when you're training those techniques in a dojo you invariably tap out early or conduct the drills in a way which minimises injury to you and your opponent. And of course, if you're on the street and in a dust up, you throw out the rule book in the interests of self-preservation.

But I do find something disturbing about UFC and how long the officials wait to stop bouts. I can understand why others who admire the skill and intensity of those techniques don't let it bother them but it bothers me.

My understanding is only rudimentary, but that instinctively seems much safer to me. The norm in boxing of repeatedly standing up obviously concussed fighters so they can be repeatedly bashed on the head again seems like the worst thing you could possibly do in terms of brain injuries.

 

[King Pietersen]

Big fan of boxing but first to admit that its record on doping controls and general protection of fighters has been less than stellar

However, I cannot stand MMA

That is legalized thuggery with many of the participants being "allegedly" () juiced to the eyeballs

What's more, IMO there is something very wrong with a "sport" where it's ok to club a guy to the mat before straddling him and beating the living **** out of him just to make sure that he is really out

Yeah, 'cause giving a concussed fighter 10 seconds to partially recover before allowing them to continue taking trauma to the brain is a much smarter idea.

 

[honestbharani]

eh what?

Think it was pretty self explanatory. ***** has been spending a lot of time explaining his points and you just come in and post "nah, you are wrong", which was basically that post of yours which I quoted.

 

[cnerd123]

If we're talking about what is safer, then MMA wins Vs Boxing no contest. MMA has grappling. You can win via submission. Damien Maia has won like 8 fights in a row in the UFC and has thrown like 10 punches.

MMA is wayyyy better for your long-term health than Boxing, easy

 

[OverratedSanity]

Think it was pretty self explanatory. ***** has been spending a lot of time explaining his points and you just come in and post "nah, you are wrong", which was basically that post of yours which I quoted.

Thanks for the analysis. I'd suggest you do this for your entire posting history in the last year.

 

[OverratedSanity]

If we're talking about what is safer, then MMA wins Vs Boxing no contest. MMA has grappling. You can win via submission. Damien Maia has won like 8 fights in a row in the UFC and has thrown like 10 punches.

MMA is wayyyy better for your long-term health than Boxing, easy

Yeah probably agree. Certainly when you look at CTEs and stuff.

MMA and pro-wrestlers struggle in other ways though. The constant physical stress leads to so many of them resorting to frequent use pain killers and the like.

 

[BoyBrumby]

MMA is a far better representation of this than Boxing IMO. It's the same thing with fewer rules. Less restrictions. More room for creativity and expressing yourself through various styles and strategies

I struggle to call a sport where an accepted common practice is to punch a prone opponent "noble".

Boxing gives the downed fighter 8 seconds to come up to scratch.

There's no "tapping out" in boxing either. The pugilistic world has some staunch observers and, in their eyes, the worst thing a fighter can do is quit. There's no harsher judgement of a boxer than to have said of him "He ****ing swallowed it in there".

The "no mas" fight with Leonard is a permanent stain on Duran's record. More often boxers have to be saved from themselves, such is their bravery.

 

[Uppercut]

The generational divide here is pretty stark. Easy to spot who's old enough to remember when boxing wasn't absolutely turgid to watch.

 

[honestbharani]

Thanks for the analysis. I'd suggest you do this for your entire posting history in the last year.

I do see if what I post applies to me first, unlike you. And in this instance, it totally does not. Now how about you do that to all your posts in all your time here?

 

[BoyBrumby]

The generational divide here is pretty stark. Easy to spot who's old enough to remember when boxing wasn't absolutely turgid to watch.

I'll cop the "being an old bastard", but boxing's not always turgid. Really couldn't say Klitschko/Joshua was.

 

[GIMH]

Pro-wrestling >>>> MMA/Boxing

 

[Uppercut]

I'll cop the "being an old bastard", but boxing's not always turgid. Really couldn't say Klitschko/Joshua was.

Yeah true but it was the first in a long time. Prior to it I think Hatton Mayweather was the last massively hyped boxing match that wasn't terrible.

 

[hendrix]

why are you missing the point so much

It's disrespectful to call anyone doing their best in life a 'thug' or 'barbarian'. That's the point of those words. Using those words to describe a person is to imply they're not capable of greater thought, that they're somehow primitive and driven by violence and greed and self-satisfaction, that they aren't complex well rounded human beings like the person who uses that word.

Saying that MMA is like all walks of life is basically exactly my whole point. That's what I'm trying to show here. I don't want you guys to suddenly like it, I just want you to respect it. These pro fighters are hardworking, skillful, intelligent human beings. They aren't pro fighters just because they're violent blood thirsty beings. They, like everyone else, are human beings who seek to constantly grow and test themselves.

Like it or don't like it, I don't mind, just don't call people who do something that you do not understand 'thugs' or 'barbarians'. Treat them with the respect they've deserved, and maybe attempt to understand the complexities of the sport before dismissing it.

This is the real PC-gone-mad.

 

[hendrix]

The generational divide here is pretty stark. Easy to spot who's old enough to remember when boxing wasn't absolutely turgid to watch.

If you like the steroid-assisted knockouts of the 80s and 90s then yeah, today's boxing is pretty boring.

 

[cnerd123]

I struggle to call a sport where an accepted common practice is to punch a prone opponent "noble".

Boxing gives the downed fighter 8 seconds to come up to scratch.

There's no "tapping out" in boxing either. The pugilistic world has some staunch observers and, in their eyes, the worst thing a fighter can do is quit. There's no harsher judgement of a boxer than to have said of him "He ****ing swallowed it in there".

The "no mas" fight with Leonard is a permanent stain on Duran's record. More often boxers have to be saved from themselves, such is their bravery.

1) In boxing you have clearly concussed fighters being stood up to continue taking punishment. How is that any more noble?
Also, you clearly don't understand grappling. Any MMA fighter worth their salt knows to defend themselves when on their back, and a lot of fights have been won by fighters who have been knocked down, followed to the ground, but were able to control the fight whilst on the ground and turn the tables. There is a reason why many fighters actually don't follow their opponents to the ground after a knock down. It's because strategically it would be a bad move. But you wouldn't have seen these occasions, and you won't understand the nuances of ground fighting, because you neither follow the sport or have tried to learn it. You're basing your opinions off a handful of highlights of some vicious GnP.

2) Again about tapping out. You've never trained grappling, clearly. You don't tap out because you are too weak or lack the fight to continue. You tap out situational checkmates. You tap out when you're caught in a submission hold that has been locked in well enough that you can't escape it, and refusing to tap out would lead to either a serious injury or getting KOed. Anyone who has trained grappling will tell you the golden rule in the gym is to tap quick, tap often. Otherwise you're going to get hurt. And in the fight, your goal is to put your opponent in a situation where their only options are to tap or to snap/nap. But again, your lack of knowledge here makes you think that a fighter who taps out somehow lacks the stomach for a fight and is quitting.

3) Are you really questioning the bravery of athletes who fight in 4 ounce gloves and who are allowed to kick, knee and elbow each other, versus boxers who only punch and do so with much bigger gloves? Again a lack of understanding of the sport. You can be a defensive boxer, you can't be a defensive MMA fighter. When all you have to do is defend yourself from punches to your body and head, you can form a technique that does that. To defend yourself from kicks too? Takedowns? Elbows and knees in the clinch? There is no way in the world you can be a defensive MMA fighter and tip toe yourself to a decision. You need to be able to take damage and deal damage. To imply anyone who agrees to compete under those terms is somehow less brave because they tap out is massively ignorant

 

[cnerd123]

The generational divide here is pretty stark. Easy to spot who's old enough to remember when boxing wasn't absolutely turgid to watch.

I'm not arguing that MMA is superior to watch than Boxing. I don't care what people's preferences are

The lack of respect for MMA is concerning. Especially since so much of it is just based of not actually understanding what is happening. This perception that Brumby, OS, etc have is what I want to change. I don't care if they still prefer boxing or Pro Wrestling (not a real sport, ftr) after this. I just want them to have some respect for the sport instead of just dismissing it due to ignorance.

MMA has some awful to watch fights too, while Boxing can still have entertaining fights. I just prefer MMA because it is so much broader. Lot more fun stylistic match ups, lot more techniques, lot more to learn. That's just personal preference though, doesn't imply one sport is better than the other.

 

[honestbharani]

TBH, I am not really into either MMA or boxing and I am very very casual WWE fan these days, but ***** has definitely convinced me that there is more to MMA than just beating the opponent up. I used to drive my friends to night clubs back when I was in the USA and the college crowds absolutely loved it when they had UFC on the big screens there so I did catch the odd fight and honestly sometimes I felt for a physical competition it was a bit boring. But the way ***** explained it, I can see how it may seem to the casual fan whilst the hardcore ones will get all the strategy behind it.

 

[Burgey]

TBH, I am not really into either MMA or boxing and I am very very casual WWE fan these days, but ***** has definitely convinced me that there is more to MMA than just beating the opponent up. I used to drive my friends to night clubs back when I was in the USA and the college crowds absolutely loved it when they had UFC on the big screens there so I did catch the odd fight and honestly sometimes I felt for a physical competition it was a bit boring. But the way ***** explained it, I can see how it may seem to the casual fan whilst the hardcore ones will get all the strategy behind it.

Liar

 

[social]

I hate language like this being used

The competitors at the highest level of MMA are black belts in various martial arts, sometimes multiple martial arts, or olympic athletes. They've spent their whole life training and mastering various skill sets that they then put to the test against other elite martial artists.

Not only that, having played several sports myself, I can genuinely say the nicest people I've met are in MMA gyms. There is no ego, no pride, no unnecessary aggression or conflict. Fighters are the most humble people I've met. And the bigger and scarier they are, they nicer they become. I've met way more 'thugs' who play cricket, soccer, basketball, etc. And gym bros are the worst. Nothing shatters these illusions of toughness and forces you to humble up like being in a gym with men and women who could all kick your ass. And the elite level guys - they have absolutely no need to prove their toughness to anyone. They're so diplomatic and peaceful and so against conflict. They're sweethearts. To associate MMA with the word 'thuggery'...urgh. It's just so, so wrong.

I can also say quite safely that it's the only sport I've seen that has comparable depth and nuance in terms of strategy and skills to cricket. It's really quite beautiful once you understand what is going on in there and the various skills and techniques available to the athletes. Mike Tyson said it best - tough people don't succeed in boxing. Smart people do. Tough people get hurt. The same applies to MMA, and in a much broader sense since there is so much going on. No just using two hands to hit someone in two parts of the body. Its a very, very complex sport.

I get how it's unappealing to the eye, especially for someone who never attempted to train and participate in it, but is it really so much to ask to simply respect it? To just take the word of someone who is in this world and is a big fan that there is so much more to it than the eye can see? That it's not 'thuggery'? You don't have to like it to atleast respect and understand it, right?

No comment on the doping issue though. I'm actually not against steroid use, just wish there were separate leagues for users and non-users to compete in.

*****, I have no doubt that they are elite athletes

I trained in jiu jitsu for years and wouldnt have a prayer in MMA

I simply dont like the fact that fighters are frequently allowed to pound away on somebody who is basically defenseless

What's more, I'd be very surprised if the vast majority of MMA fans had a clue as to the intricacy of the techniques and strategy on display

It is (or was) the fastest growing spectator sport in the world and you'd have to be naive to think that all the fans were martial artists

Anyway, I have no problem with it being legal (as it would happen anyway) but that doesnt mean that I have to watch much of it