*Official* Super Six Discussion

[Anil]

Standings coming into the SS:

Aus 12
Ken 10
Ind 8
SL 7.5
NZ 4
Zim 3.5

Standings after today's(March 7) matches:

Aus 16
Ind 12
Ken 10
SL 7.5
NZ 4
Zim 3.5

Aus are already in the semis, India are on their way after today's scare against Kenya, SL need to win both their remaining matches to have a chance of qualifying, NZ need to win all three matches or two matches and pray that Kenya doesn't win even one. Zimbabwe look like they don't have too much of a chance. What do you guys think?

 

[Tim]

NZ should only need 2 wins, it will be really stupid if anyone stuffs up against Kenya...and it almost happened today with India, luckily two players kept their nerve.

 

[Rik]

NZ should only need 2 wins, it will be really stupid if anyone stuffs up against Kenya...and it almost happened today with India, luckily two players kept their nerve.

Anyone stuffs up? Kenya totally out-played India until Ganguly and Yuvraj stood up to be counted. Their fielding was amazing although if Tikolo had got going they could have been up to 240-250, then it would have been a much closer game or even a win to Kenya.

 

[Tim]

Come on Rik...the reality is that these teams should beat Kenya even if they put on a good display. You have to congratulate Kenya for their efforts, but lets not forget that a couple of days ago they were thrashed by the West Indies by over 140 runs.

Zimbabwe v Kenya could be quite a good match.

 

[Rik]

Come on Rik...the reality is that these teams should beat Kenya even if they put on a good display. You have to congratulate Kenya for their efforts, but lets not forget that a couple of days ago they were thrashed by the West Indies by over 140 runs.

Zimbabwe v Kenya could be quite a good match.

The reality is that Kenya have shown they deserve to be there and one win (maybe against Zimbabwe) and they could get into the day-night semi and then anything can happen.

 

[Anil]

Anyone stuffs up? Kenya totally out-played India until Ganguly and Yuvraj stood up to be counted. Their fielding was amazing although if Tikolo had got going they could have been up to 240-250, then it would have been a much closer game or even a win to Kenya.

Totally outplayed....come on. 225 for 6 in 50 overs in perfect batting conditions aided by sloppy Indian fielding is hardly outplaying the opposition. The only time they were clearly on top was when they had india on the ropes at 24 for 3. Ganguly in the company of Dravid and then Yuvraj snuffed whatever hopes they had of pulling off a win and in the end, India won comfortably by 6 wickets. Rik, your pronounced partiality for India is showing through, buddy. Try to be more impartial and fairer to the other teams.

 

[Anil]

Come on Rik...the reality is that these teams should beat Kenya even if they put on a good display. You have to congratulate Kenya for their efforts, but lets not forget that a couple of days ago they were thrashed by the West Indies by over 140 runs.

Zimbabwe v Kenya could be quite a good match.

Zimbabwe vs Kenya should be interesting. This kind of effort against Zimbabwe might result in a win.

 

[Rik]

Totally outplayed....come on. 225 for 6 in 50 overs in perfect batting conditions aided by sloppy Indian fielding is hardly outplaying the opposition. The only time they were clearly on top was when they had india on the ropes at 24 for 3. Ganguly in the company of Dravid and then Yuvraj snuffed whatever hopes they had of pulling off a win and in the end, India won comfortably by 6 wickets. Rik, your pronounced partiality for India is showing through, buddy. Try to be more impartial and fairer to the other teams.

I am being impartial but the fact is that Kenya were ahead in the match till the 40th over of the Indian innings. You can try and kid yourself that it is not the case, but sorry mate, it's the truth.

The Indian fielding does not make the Kenyan batting less impressive, it just makes the fact that Kenya were on top against India show through. Did Kenya field sloppily? Nope, they ran India close most of the way.

 

[Anil]

I am being impartial but the fact is that Kenya were ahead in the match till the 40th over of the Indian innings. You can try and kid yourself that it is not the case, but sorry mate, it's the truth.

No, I am not kidding myself, mate. India were well ahead of Kenya(in terms of where Kenya were at the same stage) at the 40 over mark with two well-set batsmen in Ganguly and Yuvraj occupying the crease. At that stage, did you seriously have doubts about an Indian victory? I would be happy with any Indian win(even off the last ball with one wicket in hand), but the fact is that after an initial hiccup(which admittedly was a substantial one), the Indians regrouped and won comfortably and this regrouping did not dramatically start in the 40th over. It started when Ganguly and Dravid got together and forged a decent partnership and importantly, stopped a collapse before it could assume match-losing proportions.

I agree that Kenya played well today, but India at say, 70% of their best will still be too much for a Kenya at 100% and that was proved right today.

 

[Rik]

No, I am not kidding myself, mate. India were well ahead of Kenya(in terms of where Kenya were at the same stage) at the 40 over mark with two well-set batsmen in Ganguly and Yuvraj occupying the crease. At that stage, did you seriously have doubts about an Indian victory? I would be happy with any Indian win(even off the last ball with one wicket in hand), but the fact is that after an initial hiccup(which admittedly was a substantial one), the Indians regrouped and won comfortably and this regrouping did not dramatically start in the 40th over. It started when Ganguly and Dravid got together and forged a decent partnership and importantly, stopped a collapse before it could assume match-losing proportions.

I agree that Kenya played well today, but India at say, 70% of their best will still be too much for a Kenya at 100% and that was proved right today.

Yes I actually thought Kenya could win until they got to the 40 over stage, and so did the comentators.

 

[Anil]

The Indian fielding does not make the Kenyan batting less impressive, it just makes the fact that Kenya were on top against India show through. Did Kenya field sloppily? Nope, they ran India close most of the way.

It does, when you take into account that catches were dropped and it was not taken advantage of(atleast not enough to beat India). And so, the Kenyans fielded well, so what does that show about the Indian innings? I never denied the fact that the Kenyans played gamely and gave their superior opponents some anxious moments, but that does not take away from the fact that the Indians won with 13 balls to spare and 6 wickets in hand.

 

[Anil]

Yes I actually thought Kenya could win until they got to the 40 over stage, and so did the comentators.

Well, you and the commentators were proved comprehensively wrong, weren't you?

 

[Rik]

It does, when you take into account that catches were dropped and it was not taken advantage of(atleast not enough to beat India). And so, the Kenyans fielded well, so what does that show about the Indian innings? I never denied the fact that the Kenyans played gamely and gave their superior opponents some anxious moments, but that does not take away from the fact that the Indians won with 13 balls to spare and 6 wickets in hand.

You say that the Indian fielding made the Kenyan effort less impressive which is rubbish, India showed their flaws in the field and Kenya took advantage. Even the Indian comentator said that until Ganguly and Yuvraj got going he was expecting a Kenyan victory.

 

[Anil]

You say that the Indian fielding made the Kenyan effort less impressive which is rubbish, India showed their flaws in the field and Kenya took advantage. Even the Indian comentator said that until Ganguly and Yuvraj got going he was expecting a Kenyan victory.

Kenya took advantage and did what? posted a total which was at best competitive against this lineup(competitive because they were batting under the lights).

In reply, the openers and Kaif fell by the wayside pretty quickly, but Ganguly, Dravid & Yuvraj did not buckle under, did they? Did the asking rate ever get so huge(say, 6.5 or 7+) that it would have been difficult to try for? Did they run through the lineup after the initial breakthroughs? They didn't, did they?

This was not a score that Kenya could've defended against this lineup. However well they field or bowl, they have their limitations. The only way they could have won today was by bowling India out. Did they ever look likely to do that after Ganguly and Dravid started on the repair work?

i am not saying that the sloppy Indian fielding make the Kenyan effort less impressive. It just made the Indian fielding effort less impressive. My point is that in spite of being aided by bad fielding, they were still not able to post a more challenging total in the end.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I hoped Kenya were going to win throughout.

However, I never got to the point where I though that Kenya would win. Even at 24/3.

Anyway, Super Six talk.

NZ-India will be a massive game for both sides IMO.

 

[marc71178]

I think the crucial moment may have been the caught behind appeal against Yuvraj early in his innings. Apparently it was wrongly turned down - would have made things very interesting...

 

[krkode]

One last word on the Ind Kenya debate.
Rik, no matter how far in the game Kenya were on top - even the 49th over of the second innings! It's the final victor that has won the match. As we say in swimming,

"Who wins the race? The fastest swimmer? Nope. The best swimmer? Nope. It's the one who touches the wall first."

India still won the game, and it was a pretty excellent performance by a captain, out of form, under pressure, no matter how "bad" or "minnowish" the opposition might be.

 

[Rik]

One last word on the Ind Kenya debate.
Rik, no matter how far in the game Kenya were on top - even the 49th over of the second innings! It's the final victor that has won the match. As we say in swimming,

"Who wins the race? The fastest swimmer? Nope. The best swimmer? Nope. It's the one who touches the wall first."

India still won the game, and it was a pretty excellent performance by a captain, out of form, under pressure, no matter how "bad" or "minnowish" the opposition might be.

Yup fair enough, but it wasn't a convincing victory and Kenya pushed them most of the way. Although if you looked at the scorecard without seeing or listening in on the match it wouldn't seem that way.

For Kenya, hopefully a bit more out of the batting and some more out of the bowling, for India, they need to improve their bowling and fielding, although their batting got them out of a hole this time. Also Ganguly needs to show this is not just another false dawn in his search for form.

 

[PY]

In reply, the openers and Kaif fell by the wayside pretty quickly, but Ganguly, Dravid & Yuvraj did not buckle under, did they? Did the asking rate ever get so huge(say, 6.5 or 7+) that it would have been difficult to try for?

Erm, their required rate got up to 6.5+ at one point in the innings but with guys in so they still had upper hand.

Did they ever look likely to do that after Ganguly and Dravid started on the repair work?

Both of those sounded like they were struggling for a long time. Couldn't time the ball for a toffee and were playing and missing. Ganguly was coming down the wicket almost every ball to talk to his partner. Kinda makes you think he was getting nervous about it. But still, bit pointless as India still won but I wouldn't say it was particularly comfortable.

 

[Anil]

Erm, their required rate got up to 6.5+ at one point in the innings but with guys in so they still had upper hand.


Both of those sounded like they were struggling for a long time. Couldn't time the ball for a toffee and were playing and missing. Ganguly was coming down the wicket almost every ball to talk to his partner. Kinda makes you think he was getting nervous about it. But still, bit pointless as India still won but I wouldn't say it was particularly comfortable.

Did it? I thought it got to above 6 for a brief period and then Ganguly blasted the spinners to bring it down again almost immediately.

Of course, they were struggling initially. Consider the situation: They aided the Kenyans to score much more than they should have with some patchy bowling, sloppy fielding and missed chances. They then had to chase under lights and almost immediately were down 3 wickets for next to nothing and importantly, Tendulkar was out. Now, Ganguly was in poor form, Dravid is not the biggest hitter of the ball, the Kenyans were bowling a good line and length and fielding like mad. Obviously they struggled, but the premium at that point was on keeping the wickets and they did it. If they had tried to hit their way out of trouble at that point, they might easily have become 5 down for less than a hundred with no hope of a comeback. However scratchy their innings was, they fulfilled the need of the hour which ultimately helped them to fulfill the need of the day, ie winning the match. As Neil said, he hoped for a Kenyan victory, but he never got to a point where he thought it would actually happen. Once again, I agree that the Kenyans battled gamely, but my point is that they never looked good enough to beat India except for a brief period at the start of the Indian innings.