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*Official* Super Six Discussion

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Legglancer said:
Wrong Again .... had South Africa beaten Sri Lanka at the Group stage, SL would still have Qualified and NZ would have been knocked out.
Hmmmm make that 3 posts now...

It has been written many times that South Africa would have got through if they had won, ok Sri Lanka would have got through (sorry miscalculation on my part). What's all this about going over the top to prove me wrong? What's the prize? It's just rather odd that whenever you post on this board it's to fufil that wish...no other...
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
krkode said:
One more thing, Rik. NZ got bowled out for less than India. Sure Aus batted better against India, but they only played 22 overs - you can never say what could have happened next :P
All I can comment on is what did happen though and it didn't look like the Australians were having any problems :P

Maybe we could get a duckworth lewis calculation here...or didn't they complete enough overs? ;)
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
krkode said:
SADLY!!!

These are the greatest moments for me in my WHOLE world cup watching experience!!:wow:
Well that's 1 more match than I have. Although I did watch some matches from WC 99, but I can't remember much about it other than Scotland playing in Edinburgh and it not raining! :lol:
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Rik said:
How many teams lately have got Australia in such a position? Yes...2, but can you guess which 2? Well I'll tell you anyway, England and New Zealand. I don't see India figuring here.
Incidentally, both pitches were poor, and the Aussie also bowled well on them.
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
Don't disappear down the dead-end of third party comparisons please. That argument can be shot down inside a minute unless someone has their head so far in the sand they can't see it.

It should be a superb game between NZ and India, get to comparing it man-for-man...

I know who I want to win, and if Bond gets Sachin early...
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Neil Pickup said:
Don't disappear down the dead-end of third party comparisons please. That argument can be shot down inside a minute unless someone has their head so far in the sand they can't see it.
What arguement? I'm just saying why I think NZ can win.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Well its going to be do or die for NZ again, maybe this is the best way to win the World Cup...just constantly put yourself under pressure to win.

Bond is no doubt in form now which is good news for NZ, but whoelse? Vettori has been solid but not spectacular, Harris has been miserly as always, Oram has been on & off..but more off than on in the last 2 matches, Adams apart from the West Indies match has been very poor & he could well get the chop for the next match, Styris & Astle bowl a couple of overs between them and have had mixed results so far.

So it looks like Bond is going to have to do the damage again at the top of the order. Now I think if NZ get Tendulkar out for less than 25 then they will see that as a victory in itself.

NZ's batting lineup will probably yet again change, I don't know whether NZ can get away with Vettori opening in this type of match. McMillan may be out of form but if he does happen to strike form against India then NZ will set themselves up nicely.
 

anzac

International Debutant
full_length said:
"As I said elsewhere I do not think the Indians can improve significantly from where they are at now, whereas NZ can. On current form India may be slight favs, but if NZ put their game together I would back this team v India on anything other than 'sub continent' pitches.
"

And I responded to that stupid comment about SubC pitches elsewhere. Why dont you take the pain to go and look at match results for India in ODIs home and away and run a similar excercise for NZ. Let us know what you find.

As for the first part of the quote above, some more crap!
How do yuou know INdia cant improve significantly while NZ can?
Harbhajan hasnt come into play significantly yet. Kaif hasnt made big scores. Sehwag hasnt plummeled a century this WC (he was the only one who managed to score on your so called cricket pitches recently). There's scope for improvement.
I think that NZ have already performed out of their skins, and done the best they can..
They will have to fire big time to make a match of the India encouter.
I really do seem to have hit a nerve here.....this was not meant as an 'attack' on India nor was it some 'blind' faith in NZ, but I admit I can not claim total impartiality.

I realise now that I should have clarified my comment re India's bowling - I am referring to their seam attack as opposed to their spin attack. An oversight I admit but I was thinking in terms of the pitches & performances in this WC. Spin as yet has not played a consistant / major part in this tourneyment (although it has an influence), & seam bowlers still dominate the wicket taking stakes. The Indian seamers have had some impressive results (Nehra), but I do not think they have the ability to do this consistantly against the better batting line ups they will now be facing (Srinath being the exception). Their seam attack needs a large total to defend (whereas the Aussies just need a sniff).

While Kaif & Sehwag haven't made big scores / plummeled a century, by and large the Indian batting order / top order have been doing the job very well thankyou - as per Sachin's new record run tally. They are nicely in form as such - but IMO the batting lineup is susceptable to pace & bounce (so long as it is not short & wide).

I said significant improvement - NZ still has more work / improvement to do than India!!!! India has improved out of sight from the totally pathetic bunch of non performers (Sehwag & Srinath aside), on the recent tour to NZ - NZ has yet to put a complete team performance together - esp in the bowling.

So far as the pitch comments go I have already said that I considered the recent NZ pitches as substandard, but IMO they have been no worse than some of the past pitches served up in the sub continent - just a different type of bad & one that does not suit anyone really, whereas pitches doctored to produce prodigeous & early spin does suit India, but not those countries where wickets are 'greener' & spin less of a norm.

IMO India's ODI & Test record have been blown out by their Home results - their Away Test series results tends to support this. The dominant factor in this record has been their Home pitches where 'spin is king'. India does well in ODI on flatter batting tracks, but not so much on pitches with bounce & seam.

I know India have the better ODI pedigree & I have said that India should be favs on current form, but that I would back this NZ team v India if they got their game together on anything other than sub continent type pitches - so what??????

So far as the WC results comparison goes it was a comparison of results relative to the lead in form of the opponents & NZs poor ODI record in SA. IMO the seam attacks of WI & SA on their lead in form were out performing those of ENG & PAK, & their batting lineups are more familiar with these sorts of pitches than ENG at least.

The NZ loss to SL was as a result of poor decisions & selections prior to the toss - the wrong game plan for the wrong pitch with the wrong team selection. The SL decision v India to put India in was wrong IMO - but not nearly as 'wrong' as NZ got it. That is not meant to deminish the Indian performance (esp the top order), but to put a bit of perspective onto the results.

Even the result of the AUS v NZ match - so NZ made less than India (a record WC low for NZ) & lost by 90+ runs. IMO the game was a lot tighter than that would indicate and AUS were in the most trouble to date in this WC. IMO it was a game NZ 'should' have won, as opposed to a game ENG perhaps 'could' have won.
From memory I am not aware that India could say either about their game v AUS, & I doubt they would have done as well on the same pitch.

If you can not see the 'validity' of any of the above then we shall have to agree to disagree on it all & say no more on the matter, as I doubt that even the eventual result will change either of our perspectives.

Regardless I am still looking forward to the match as the pitch will be better than that v AUS & the players should be the main determining factor not the pitch.

(Apologies to all for the length of this reply)

:)
 

anzac

International Debutant
krkode said:
True that they were outthought and outplayed in that game - but Cairns was just one barrier that they could not possibly pass. 250 isn't that bad of a score, but with Cairns out there, it was made bad. That's all I was saying :P
point taken - I was just saying that it was more than just the 'Cairns' factor, more than just one brilliant individual performance but rather that performance was the culmination of other factors equally important.

;)
 

anzac

International Debutant
and I would still hope that all things being equal, Fleming would continue to bowl Bond out early as he has done V ZIM & AUS & continue to go for the juggular.

:)
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
anzac said:

Even the result of the AUS v NZ match - so NZ made less than India (a record WC low for NZ) & lost by 90+ runs. IMO the game was a lot tighter than that would indicate and AUS were in the most trouble to date in this WC. IMO it was a game NZ 'should' have won, as opposed to a game ENG perhaps 'could' have won.
From memory I am not aware that India could say either about their game v AUS, & I doubt they would have done as well on the same pitch.
They were in greater trouble against England, because they were batting second on a tricky wicket, and their bowlers hadn't performed so well on the wicket - against NZ they still had the advantage that they were yet to bowl (hence I put money on them winning when the score was about 140-8, as I thought that if Aus struggled against NZ's bowlers, then NZ were bound to fare poorly against Aus)
 

krkode

State Captain
Kenya do it again :O

Now if NZ beat India, they play Aus in the semis and Ind plays Kenya :P If NZ lose to India and SL beat Zimbabwe, then SL play Aus in the semis and Ind STILL plays Kenya :O

Now for Sri Lanka to get through, NZ HAVE to lose and SL have to beat Zim.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
krkode said:
Kenya do it again :O

Now if NZ beat India, they play Aus in the semis and Ind plays Kenya :P If NZ lose to India and SL beat Zimbabwe, then SL play Aus in the semis and Ind STILL plays Kenya :O

Now for Sri Lanka to get through, NZ HAVE to lose and SL have to beat Zim.
Kenya vs India day night Semi Final...anything could happen :)
 

Legglancer

State Regular
Cudos to the gritty Kenyan's for overcoming many a sceptic and qualifying for the semi's. This is not a easy feat that they have achieved (albeit a little help from NZ). Nothing should be taken awey from the Kenyans as some suggested that their victory over SL was a fluke .... I think on that day Kenya definitely was the better team than SL and beat SL for the first time in history with a perfect game plan that was quite outstanding.

Today they achieved another first by convincingly beating Zimbabwe for the first time in history. Considering Kenya's limited cricket infrastructure and resources this achievement is one of the more positive surprising events in this WC 2003.

Good Luck Kenya !!!
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
wahindiawah said:
Its going to be an Indo_Australian final on 23rd March!! Who will lift the cup? your guess is as good as mine:)
Well they will be if we both guess the same team!

Only one winner in my view I'm afraid to say, and it's not India!
 

Gotchya

State Vice-Captain
wahindiawah said:
Its going to be an Indo_Australian final on 23rd March!! Who will lift the cup? your guess is as good as mine:)
For all the good cricket the Aussies have played, you can say that they ARE the deserving winners, afterall they have maintained their fire for four years, whereas India are resurgent only in this Tournament. It should be a good match off, after all the best team on the day will win. Though, I wish that its not an affair similar to that in 99.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
The major problem will be Indias capulation to Australia earlier in Phase 1. They have already proven that they can collapse and get beaten heavily by Australia while Australia have proven they can demolish the "World's Best Batting Side." In fact I think Australia are the world's best batting side so there :P
 

krkode

State Captain
It's unfortunate sometimes that the best team on the day wins and not the best team overall. But I'd still be very happy if India won.

All I'm saying is, even if India win, they probably won't be able to pull off a 4, or for that matter even a 1 year streak of true champion performances.

But who knows :P
 

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