Rank the 10,000 club

[ankitj]

All the gaps in Tendulkar's record are justified reasons to rate Lara or Viv Richards or Sobers above him. Dravid over Tendulkar is indefensible. And I'm extrapolating from knowing cricket fans in real world who are disappointed that Tendulkar didn't do things that Lara did so they start rating Tendulkar below Dravid (even Sehwag when he was in his pomp). Pardon me but I don't think there can be anything other than an emotional reason to argue Dravid > Tendulkar.

 

[ankitj]

You can ignore the 1989 series since Tendulkar was 16, it won't change a thing.
He still averages in 30s against Akram

Akram never dismissed Tendulkar in that one series they met in outside of 1989 btw. In 6 innings, he fell to Saqlain 4 times, Shoaib once and run out once.

 

[anil1405]

All the gaps in Tendulkar's record are justified reasons to rate Lara or Viv Richards or Sobers above him. Dravid over Tendulkar is indefensible. And I'm extrapolating from knowing cricket fans in real world who are disappointed that Tendulkar didn't do things that Lara did so they start rating Tendulkar below Dravid (even Sehwag when he was in his pomp). Pardon me but I don't think there can be anything other than an emotional reason to argue Dravid > Tendulkar.

That's where the issue lies. Not everyone who rates Dravid over Sachin in tests think so because Sachin hasn't achieved certain things. To think in that direction itself has more emotional reasoning attached as compared to rational thinking.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Average vs a bowler is complete and utter bullcrap.

 

[h_hurricane]

You can ignore the 1989 series since Tendulkar was 16, it won't change a thing.
He still averages in 30s against Akram.

And yet, Akram dismissed him only once in tests. And that happened in 1989 series.

 

[pardus]

All the gaps in Tendulkar's record are justified reasons to rate Lara or Viv Richards or Sobers above him. Dravid over Tendulkar is indefensible. And I'm extrapolating from knowing cricket fans in real world who are disappointed that Tendulkar didn't do things that Lara did so they start rating Tendulkar below Dravid (even Sehwag when he was in his pomp). Pardon me but I don't think there can be anything other than an emotional reason to argue Dravid > Tendulkar.

I never said Dravid > Tendulkar. I don't rate Dravid even near to Tendulkar. I was talking about Sanga.

Akram never dismissed Tendulkar in that one series they met in outside of 1989 btw. In 6 innings, he fell to Saqlain 4 times, Shoaib once and run out once.

That's not the point. It doesn't matter. I don't think anyone here is telling that Akram or any of McGrath/Donald etc. had a number on Tendulkar. The point is - at the end of the day - whatever maybe the reason, he never had a spectacular series against these bowlers. An observation from which one can consequently extrapolate to "low number of great performances against truly great attacks" during his 18-year 60 average period. It's not naive or blasphemous to make such a statement, as you are trying to make it sound like.

 

[ankitj]

And yet, Akram dismissed him only once in tests. And that happened in 1989 series.

Yeah, hence whole average against a bowler can be misleading. Someone use to make a point about how just looking up names on the scorecard of a match to determine the quality of attack can be misguided.

I'm onboard if you are arguing Tendulkar didn't succeed against Saqlain and he did present the best challenge to India of any spinner during Tendulkar's playing years.

 

[ankitj]

I never said Dravid > Tendulkar. I don't rate Dravid even near to Tendulkar. I was talking about Sanga.


That's not the point. It doesn't matter. I don't think anyone here is telling that Akram or any of McGrath/Donald etc. had a number on Tendulkar. The point is - at the end of the day - whatever maybe the reason, he never had a spectacular series against these bowlers. An observation from which one can consequently extrapolate to "low number of great performances against truly great attacks" during his 18-year 60 average period. It's not naive or blasphemous to make such a statement, as you are trying to make it sound like.

I'm not making it sound blasphemous. Where did you get that from. If you know my posting history on this board you would know I don't do that.

I hear you that Tendulkar never had spectacular innings against great bowlers like Lara did. And I already said that's a gap that's well acknowledged. Although he did have great series against Warne, Murali, Steyn, Walsh and Ambrose. None were as great as Lara's though.

 

[trundler]

Spectacular compared to Lara, no. But then Lara went missing more often, especially away.

Ad infinitum.

 

[h_hurricane]

One thing I never understood is a few posts here and a lot in PakPassion that Sachin never played against Wasim and Waqar in their prime. That works both ways isn't it ? They did not play against him for lot of his prime either. Both got opportunity to bully Sachin to submission in 1989 series when he was only 16, and yet neither did.

The only bowler who I thought had a wood on Tendulkar was Allan Donald. This is by watching 1992-93 series and two series in 1996-97. Tendulkar got a couple of hundreds against Donald but was otherwise a bit below par. Saqlain did well against him 1999 series, but it was one series, so I am not so sure.

 

[ankitj]

One thing I never understood is a few posts here and a lot in PakPassion that Sachin never played against Wasim and Waqar in their prime. That works both ways isn't it ? They did not play against him for lot of his prime either. Both got opportunity to bully Sachin to submission in 1989 series when he was only 16, and yet neither did.

The only bowler who I thought had a wood on Tendulkar was Allan Donald. This is by watching 1992-93 series and two series in 1996-97. Tendulkar got a couple of hundreds against Donald but was otherwise a bit below par. Saqlain did well against him 1999 series, but it was one series, so I am not so sure.

Possibly McGrath too. 2 hundreds in 18 innings and average of 37. Interestingly he did better against both playing away from home.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Against McGrath he had 2 good series in middle but 2 bad ones (3 games) at each end. The last series has some context – played 2 tests in a 4 test series one of which was on a Green top in Nagpur and other a dust bowl in Mumbai.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I'm pretty sure Tendulkar's strike rate compares favorably with Lara so where does this assertion that he wasn't as "spectacular" come from? You look at his big scores post-tennis elbow and he's still scoring at 60 and above and that despite having to almost entirely cut out the hook and pull from his arsenal.

 

[ankitj]

Never scored a 250+ score so that extra bit of ruthlessness was missing. Spectacular or not is subjective. Lara exuded a determination to show who is the boss. Tendulkar was more technical precision and perfection. Both are tremendous joy to watch.

 

[trundler]

ATG upgrade on Joe Root is probably accurate.

Also, you're welcome for the phrase meme opinion, CW.

 

[Daemon]

Anything beyond 150 is more often than not wanker runs anyways

 

[harsh.ag]

Unpopular opinion maybe: Sachin's batting was more exciting to watch than Lara's until approximately the 90 run mark. After that, Lara went into overdrive.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm pretty sure Tendulkar's strike rate compares favorably with Lara so where does this assertion that he wasn't as "spectacular" come from? You look at his big scores post-tennis elbow and he's still scoring at 60 and above and that despite having to almost entirely cut out the hook and pull from his arsenal.

Lara's big tons would have some insane gear changes where he'd just go "**** it, time to score 50 off the next 30 balls". Overall strike rate doesn't really capture that.

Graeme Smith had a strike rate of 60 and his batting was about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

[Altaican]

Anymore criticism of Tendulkar and I see this thread going down the drain quickly with mad mud slinging between numerous, extremely touchy Tendulkar fans and whoever is crazy/patient enough to point out -what they think are - holes in his “almighty” CV

 

[harsh.ag]

Anymore criticism of Tendulkar and I see this thread going down the drain quickly with mad mud slinging between numerous, extremely touchy Tendulkar fans and whoever is crazy/patient enough to point out -what they think are - holes in his “almighty” CV

Said an extremely touchy fan

 

[Migara]

Yeah, hence whole average against a bowler can be misleading. Someone use to make a point about how just looking up names on the scorecard of a match to determine the quality of attack can be misguided.

I'm onboard if you are arguing Tendulkar didn't succeed against Saqlain and he did present the best challenge to India of any spinner during Tendulkar's playing years.

Not actually. Saqlain posed the best challenge that Indians faced on home soil. In few tours to SL, Murali bamboozled whole Indian teams, especially his last one in SL.