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semi finalists = joke

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
well if england, aussie, southe africa, pakistan are there is something seriously wrong
What is seriously wrong?

For the past how long have we been saying that aside from Australia, the other 7 can beat each other on any given day.

Thus whichever of the 7 get through, something must be seriously wrong by your reckoning.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
i ahvent brought up this topic for months. and i feel since the tournament has now progressed to this stage its a sensible time to bring it up. do it on the rankings. aus and sa - 1v8. srilanka and india - 2v7, nz v wi - 3 v 6 and pak v eng- 4v5
Yes, but there has to be a cut off point (and it has to be well in advance of the competition for planning purposes)

It's not the ICC's fault that NZ have had a good last few months.

Look at the time before then - the time that caused NZ to be ranked 8th...
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
yea but it carries only a littleweighting. 8 months of cricket changes alot. personally u need to go to the latest possilble
And had that shown NZ 8th, when they were 2nd 8 months ago, no doubt you'd have moaned.

They had to do it early to aid planning.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
marc71178 said:
What is seriously wrong?

For the past how long have we been saying that aside from Australia, the other 7 can beat each other on any given day.

Thus whichever of the 7 get through, something must be seriously wrong by your reckoning.
for a start check what that comment is replying to.

south africa is 8th int he world. wi are 6. they should never of been put in the same pool.

again read toerh posts, and ull see i never denied i wasnt a sore loser. i feel that im a justified sore loser though.

i havent ever seen any other tournament bar this one that goes on rankings nearly a year out.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
marc71178 said:
What is seriously wrong?

For the past how long have we been saying that aside from Australia, the other 7 can beat each other on any given day.

Thus whichever of the 7 get through, something must be seriously wrong by your reckoning.
and actually we have shown that theres a gulf between 1 and 2. and then also 2,3 to 4. both us and sril lanka have completly dominated those below us this year.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
cbuts said:
and actually we have shown that theres a gulf between 1 and 2. and then also 2,3 to 4. both us and sril lanka have completly dominated those below us this year.
Except when Sri Lanka played England last week - or is your argument with the OTHER sides?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
i feel that im a justified sore loser though.
There's no such thing.



cbuts said:
i havent ever seen any other tournament bar this one that goes on rankings nearly a year out.
The World Cup (biggest team event in the Sporting World) does.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
and actually we have shown that theres a gulf between 1 and 2. and then also 2,3 to 4.
Erm no, there isn't.

As shown by the fact that the number 2 and 3 has changed hands so much.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
cbuts said:
i never denied i wasnt a sore loser. i feel that im a justified sore loser though.
No such thing.

Watch me - I'll show you how a MAN takes defeat this afternoon, you whinging sheepsha (voice fades into distance)
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Amazing how an average side such as England beat the Australians when the far superior New Zealanders couldn't. Perhaps there's less between the teams under Australia than some forum members imagine?
 

cbuts

International Debutant
i actually didnt have to much problem wth them in there. they beat no.2 so good on em. and they pulled of one of the biggest upsets for years, so congrats for england, one would think they will tkae out the tournamnt now.

marc71178 said:
The World Cup (biggest team event in the Sporting World) does.
please dont tell me its a just a crciekt thing to please the indian broadcasters

no.2 hasnt chnged much. south africa had it for years, then we had it for a month or so. now sri lanka have it comfortably at the moment
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
cbuts said:
the competitions pool allocations were done way to soon. i nkow this is an old debate, but.... 3 out of the 4 finalists have played nz in a series this year. nz beat pak 5-1 we beat england 3-0 and WI 4-0. and yet all these teams make it.admitidly we ****ed up something chronic against the ozzies, but lets face it our chances were always slim.
Interesting argument there.

Australia - The best (though that appears to be under considerable threat come next summer (I can hope))
England - Bloody good team nowadays. We destroyed you 3-0 in the Test series, and lost the ODI's, but the selections were all wrong. Now they've sorted that out, we're definately in the top 4.
Pakistan - Ultra talented side, who are in the top 4 purely on talent.
West Indies - Good ODI side, even if the Test side needs some fiddling with. Played well to beat SA, and deserve their place.

The fact is, all of them are there because they've earned it. Face it.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
cbuts said:
and they pulled of one of the biggest upsets for years
Yes, clearly a huge upset, as so many people actually thought we had our best cahnce for ages, plus the fact that we outplayed them. Huge upset.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Tom Halsey said:
Yes, clearly a huge upset, as so many people actually thought we had our best cahnce for ages, plus the fact that we outplayed them. Huge upset.
I think it was still a huge upset, but there is now the first glimmer of a measure of confidence in the English one day side.

For the most part, there is really just one team now with a couple of players in the one-day side who aren't considered for the tests and vice-versa - and that is very much a good thing. We're almost getting to the stage where we are picking our best players, irrespective of the duration of the game.

I'd like to think that they'll have a decent tour of South Africa (possibly England will even start as marginal favourites) - only then should we start licking our lips and contemplating next summer.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
please dont tell me its a just a crciekt thing to please the indian broadcasters
Football actually :p



cbuts said:
no.2 hasnt chnged much. south africa had it for years, then we had it for a month or so. now sri lanka have it comfortably at the moment
The number of sides occupying 2 and 3 in recent times is quite large, because Australia aside, the sides are fairly evenly matched in ODI, no matter what you say about it.

As for SL being comfortable - the fact they've only been there a week or so suggests it's not that clearcut.
 

cbuts

International Debutant
a week, they been there over a month. england should destroy south afrcia, admitidly its over thre but hey they are in shambles at the moment. how many changes are there from the team that took us on earlier in the year, gough anyone else?

i wouldnt call wi a good odi side at all. they bet south africa who are the worst out of the main nations. although im hoping they will take out the tourny

no one bar maybe english media really gave u a chance in hell. cant wait till the chappelhadlee trophy
 

JASON

Cricketer Of The Year
cbuts said:
the points is why ahve a tournament when the best dont reach the end? yes we lost to aussie, yes we got ****ed up. but yes we have ****ed up all the other 3 semi finalists. just shows how big the gulf is between aussies and the rest. the large amount of prze money that we misse dout on due to this draw **** up will ahve effects for nz cirkcet in the future. ur talking about a union that has to scrap tests for odi's due to financial problems
CBUTS, I can see your points and agree with some. It seems unfair doesn't it when NZ the second best ODI team ATM to Australia ends up being put in the same group as Australia. If NZ had another game under its belt before playing Aus, like England the result may well have been different.

Besides I agree that NZ would on most days of the year beat WI and England!!
But at the end of the day ODI's are a lottery and any one of the top 8 can beat the other on their day. A knockout tournament such as the Champions trophy exemplifies this fickle character of ODI's. Mate, England have long been the ones who got whipped :whip: by everyone in ODI's. So neither you nor I should despise their occasional moments of glory :D which are few and far between!! :p

If you look at the World Cup one win does not send a team into the semi finals, nor does one loss send a team out of the tournament. And as you probably well know in the last 2 World Cups NZ has done well (reaching Semis in 1999 and Super six 2004 IIRC).

Mate , NZ was hampered at this Champions Trophy by the absence of the champion prized bowler in Shane Bond. If he returns to the Team fully fit NZ will be a totally different team.

Without wanting to sound too patronising, I think with John Bracewell (who was regarded as the best limited overs coach in England when he helped Gloucestershire to their phenomenal success) as coach NZ's ODI fortunes are going to improve vastly IMO.
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
cbuts said:
i wouldnt call wi a good odi side at all.

The only reason I can assume for that is their poor Test performances, since their one day side is good IMO (note I tipped them as an e/w bet before the Competition)

If that is your reasoning then I have to say NZ aren't a good odi side either.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
cbuts said:
no one bar maybe english media really gave u a chance in hell. cant wait till the chappelhadlee trophy
Because few gave England a chance based purely on historical or emotional reasons (and in many cases, mindless rhetoric), what does that say? That they SHOULDN'T have made it to the final? Or, more likely, that those of us who are possibly a little older and wiser (having seen it all before) actually know a little more than the 'conclusion jumpers', of which club you have proved to be a worthy member?

Man for man, the current England cricketers in general are a little ahead of their New Zealand counterparts in skill - where the Kiwis have almost 'over-achieved' is in the way they knit together as a unit - something England seem to be showing signs of doing themselves. Captaincy too comes into matters - Fleming is revered almost as a god when it comes to the art of captaincy, but Vaughan is proving to be quite astute himself.

It's really brassed you off big-time hasn't it? But let me let you into a secret - it's a game, and the world doesn't stop turning because of it (well, the bit at the top where I live doesn't).
 

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