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Shane Warne - the myth

Daemon

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All good, if we can stack the team playing Warne with Indians from the 90s, we'll just stack the team playing Murali with Australians from the 90s.
Maybe Warne would’ve been owned by his own team’s batsmen as well but yeah, I disagree with ankit that Warne sucking against India means he’d be worse off against ATG players of spin as compared to Murali.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If he stays fit, it'll probably happen early next year.
What's the longest gap between a player debuting for their country and a player debuting IN their country?

And is he fit enough to tour Australia this year?
 

Burgey

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Bumrah is no show to hold that record. Lindsay Hassett would be a good shout. Debuted* away vs England in June 1938. First home test he played in was in Brisbane in November 1946.

*Edit: Daybooed
 
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stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bumrah is no show to hold that record. Lindsay Hassett would be a good shout. Debuted* away vs England in June 1938. First home test he played in was in Brisbane in November 1946.

*Edit: Daybooed
That was, I both suspect and hope, a very unique situation. 8 years is a long time between drinks.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
All good, if we can stack the team playing Warne with Indians from the 90s, we'll just stack the team playing Murali with Australians from the 90s.
Murali didn't suck against Australia all the time though. Got 5 fivers and 1 tender against them. So he still gives a chance. That's my reasoning anyway.
 
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morgieb

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I also feel like if you discount Warne's India performances for him being off colour whenever he played them, you also have to consider that Murali's performances in Australia came somewhat outside of his peak - 3 Tests when he was still kind of green (and when there was a big throwing uproar); 2 in terrible conditions for spin bowling and when his decline started. Also 5 Tests is a much smaller sample size than 14 (11 discounting his last series where he actually did quite well)
 

TheJediBrah

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Murali didn't suck against Australia all the time though. Got 5 fivers and 1 tender against them. So he still gives a chance. That's my reasoning anyway.
Hate myself for getting involved again, but that's hardly a fair analogy. Of course Murali is going to do well against Australia, a team who historically struggle against spin/and in Asia more than anything else, in dustbowly home conditions. Not the same as Warne v India, who are generally better players of spin.

An equivalent analogy would be, for a hypothetical example, Vernon Philander not being much good against India in India, but then taking 5-fors and 10fors if they toured South Africa and happened to be playing on greentops.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Warne got many opportunities in subcontinent dustbowls against India but he didn't prove himself. Even his performance in limited overs gives no indication he could have under any conditions done much to trouble Indians. Murali has had his moments in some conditions against both strong teams (even had an MoM in a test in India against India). Combined returns of 12 fivers and 3 tenfers against those 2 teams can't be hand waved. Didn't play enough in Australia in his peak years (1998-2008) else I don't think he would have had that bad an average.

That's my reasoning anyway. Warne is still the second greatest spin bowler of all time IMO (not counting Barnes)
 
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wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Bumrah is no show to hold that record. Lindsay Hassett would be a good shout. Debuted* away vs England in June 1938. First home test he played in was in Brisbane in November 1946.

*Edit: Daybooed
Norman Yardley outdid Hassett by a month or so. He debuted away vs SA in December 1938 and his first home test was at Trent Bridge in June 1947 when he captained the side against SA.

EDITS
And Phil Mead had to wait even longer. First test in December 1911 in Sydney and first home test in July 1921 at Manchester.

I thought that would be the record, but Mead was outdone by Bert Strudwick and Eric Hollies.

Strudwick had to wait 11 years and 4 months - debut in SA in January 1910, first home test at Nottingham in May 1921.

Hollies probably holds the record at 12 years and 5 months. Debuted in January 1935 in the WI, first home test in June 1947 at Nottingham.
 
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Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
Hollies probably holds the record at 12 years and 5 months. Debuted in January 1935 in the WI, first home test in June 1947 at Nottingham.
I recall reading that Hollies sometimes expressed the view that he preferred playing for his county rather than being involved in Tests.
He also figures in another remarkable record - he did not reach 20 in any innings between 1946 and 1953, and equalled an all-time first-class record, between July 1948 and August 1950, of seventy-one consecutive innings without reaching double figures. His total of 1,673 first class runs was 650 fewer than his haul of wickets.
 

_00_deathscar

International Debutant
Seriously, though, speaking as an Indian, I never much feared Warne for Australia. Murali, yes - there was always a fear that he would run through the side somehow. Warne, no.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I recall reading that Hollies sometimes expressed the view that he preferred playing for his county rather than being involved in Tests.
He also figures in another remarkable record - he did not reach 20 in any innings between 1946 and 1953, and equalled an all-time first-class record, between July 1948 and August 1950, of seventy-one consecutive innings without reaching double figures. His total of 1,673 first class runs was 650 fewer than his haul of wickets.
Yes, I read that too. I didn't know about his batting though. I suppose in an ideal world his home debut would have been 14 months later and he'd still have bowled Bradman for none.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Seriously, though, speaking as an Indian, I never much feared Warne for Australia. Murali, yes - there was always a fear that he would run through the side somehow. Warne, no.
Murali's career best ODI figures came against India.

 

ImpatientLime

International Regular

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Murali's career best ODI figures came against India.

The entire middle order 3-7 are lefties for India. Has it ever happened before, with any country? We can't seem to find one to save our lives right now.
 

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