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The man who saw it comming a light year away!!

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Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
This thread is just another medium for a massive anti-India/anti-England argument. Is this really necessary? Shouldn't we end it before it spirals out of control?
I don't think too many people have expressed an anti-England sentiment over here. I certainly haven't. We are just trying to argue against a clearly prejudiced and biased anti-subcontinent sentiment. So far, it hasn't gone out of control, so why don't we let it go on till it does?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
anilramavarma said:
Hey Marc, Bazza, why don't you look at these stats?
(snipped)
How many people tipped any of those 3 teams to do well?

Certainly I cannot remember anyone who tipped England or the Windies to go anywhere.


Also I only brought those figures up to rebut the claim that Bazza had only used "selected facts" to come to his conclusions by using the only good result in the last 12 for the 3 nations concerned. I'm not trying to boost any other nations, merely find flaws in other people's hypocritical postings.
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Re: Re: Re: The man who saw it comming a light year away!!

anilramavarma said:
What a positively biased statement!! For 10 matches they bowl well above ordinary(in fact brilliant at times) and that is an exception for you while the really ordinary bowling in the 11th match(the final) is the norm. What a logic, man! I take my hat off to you!:rolleyes:
So they bowled well in the first game against Australia (when they were smashed for 128 in 22 overs?)

And conceding 273 to Pakistan was good was it?

They bowled well in some games, but at other times their performances weren't up to scratch in all honesty.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
How many people tipped any of those 3 teams to do well?

Certainly I cannot remember anyone who tipped England or the Windies to go anywhere.


Also I only brought those figures up to rebut the claim that Bazza had only used "selected facts" to come to his conclusions by using the only good result in the last 12 for the 3 nations concerned. I'm not trying to boost any other nations, merely find flaws in other people's hypocritical postings.
How many people tipped India, Pakistan or SL to do well in light of their performances just before the WC? Pakistan was regarded as a dangerous floater in spite of their form because they are traditionally the most unpredictable team in world cricket. BTW, Windies, especially after their series win in India were tipped by many as the dark horses coming into the tournament. NZ were tipped as a likely title contender by many, a third favourite behind Aus and SA after their thumping win over India. England admittedly was not given much chance by anyone.

However, that is just not the point. Bazza brought out his "facts" and now you brought out your own stats to prove that subcontinent teams have always done badly in SA and Aus and hence will fare poorly in the WC. Tha anomaly in that is as I pointed out, only two teams have really done well in Aus and SA, ie Aus and SA. So, there has to be 2 other semifinalists, right? The stats show that it could as well have been a subcontinent team as any of the other teams mentioned based on their performances in SA. My point is that if a team makes the semifinal of a WC, they have done well in that tournament whichever yardstick you look at it. Furthermore, the results before the WC also prove that most of the other teams have fared as badly or even worse in SA and Aus. So, his argument that all subcontinent teams will do badly in the WC was wrong(because he didn't use all the facts) and that's what I was pointing out. Marc, are you arguing seriously or just trying to wind me up? Coz as much as I love to write about cricket, it's really a pain when I have to reiterate my points again and again. Please read and reply to my entire post ie if you are planning to reply.
 
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Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: The man who saw it comming a light year away!!

marc71178 said:
So they bowled well in the first game against Australia (when they were smashed for 128 in 22 overs?)

And conceding 273 to Pakistan was good was it?

They bowled well in some games, but at other times their performances weren't up to scratch in all honesty.
My term was "well above ordinary(in fact brilliant at times)".

1. The league match against Aus. The batting screwed up royally and the bowlers didn't have much of a chance to make anything happen. That was one of the bad days for the bowlers, definitely, but it was a worse one for the batsmen.

2. Against Pakistan, Zaheer 2-46 and Srinath 1-41 bowled really well. Nehra was the only main bowler who got really pummelled that day, he still took two crucial wickets(2-74). Even Kumble who bowled badly that day gave away only 51 runs in 10 overs which is not too bad in a high scoring match. so, it was not as if the bowling machinery completely broke down on that day.

The final was the really the first time in the tournament that the bowling totally screwed up the match for India, so collectively that was their first off day.

Whatever adjectives you attribute to the Indian bowling in the WC, they were the second best bowling attack in terms of efficiency and effectiveness in this WC and as such, Bazza's comment that they were ordinary based on the final performance and totally discounting all the good work they had done on the way there was biased and prejudiced.
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
marc71178 said:
Ironic that, you say he looked at selected facts then use that fact:

India last Test Series in SA: 0-1; in Aus: 0-3
Pakistan last Test Series in SA: 0-2; in Aus: 0-3
Sri Lanka last Test Series in SA: 0-2; in Aus: 0-3

India last ODI Series in SA: 1-3; in Aus: 0-4
Pakistan last ODI Series in SA: 1-4; in Aus: 2-1
Sri Lanka last ODI Series in SA: 1-4; in Aus: 1-3

So out of 12 possibles, the 3 lost 11, yet you quote the 1 that Pakistan won as proof that Bazza used selected facts?
12 possibilities...LOL, the person who was judging the teams progress in world cup on the basis of the results in "TEST MATCHES" would obviously come to such absurd conclusions!
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
As I said I provided facts to back up my opinion and I believe to an extent I was proven right. Pakistan had all sorts of problems with the batting, continually playing irresponsible shots to throw the wickets away. Same goes for Sri Lanka - batsmen (even 8 of them in the semi) couldn't get a run of scores going, and even Murali struggled. They rode the crest of the Vaas wave all the way to the semi and I believe they were fortunate to progress so far.
I can't believe that you still claims to have be proven right to an extend.First of all, you had claimed that"None of the Asians" would proceed to the Finals, or even to the Semis (as all were suppose to have a poor world cup).
Pakistan had more problems with their BOWLING than their batting, it was all coz of infighting and the other stuff and i believe most of us had written them off for the said reasons.Sl had a poor Semi, but they did reach it and they did play some good cricket.


That brings us on to India and my closing statement. OK, I admit it - I hold my hands up. India made the final and I was surprised by how well they played, especially those three seamers, in the earlier games. Unfortunately for them the fact remains they were shown up to be the ordinary bowlers they were in the final, bowling a succession of poor deliveries and lots of short stuff which was repeatedly punished by Ponting et al.
Yes they were ordinary bowlers in the final as they were not able to handle the pressure, and the fact is that they were written off to even REACH THE FINAL, whatever happened in the final is a different thing!

So there we are, I was two thirds right, but I stand by what I said, because in the lead up to the tournament I just couldn't see India performing as well as they did, and of course that is a credit to them. There almost is alot to be said for coming second in this tournament, because lets face it, nobody ever got close to Australia, and the two sides who had a chance of beating them were shot to pieces in the end.
2/3 rd right ??? is this a joke? None of the Asians were suppose to reach the K.O stage, two reached it and only one of them failed, i guess yours mathematic is as poor as your theory!

And as for India or Sl not able to match Australia, yeah noone did and noone can, and it has nothing to do with the topic either!
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
marc71178 said:
How many people tipped any of those 3 teams to do well?

Certainly I cannot remember anyone who tipped England or the Windies to go anywhere.


Just go though that "bizzare theory" once again, it says none of the asians can do well , so theycan't reach the semis.

That leaves out England,WI and NZ to go through the semis along with Australia!!
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Ringua said:
12 possibilities...LOL, the person who was judging the teams progress in world cup on the basis of the results in "TEST MATCHES" would obviously come to such absurd conclusions!
Erm last time I checked the pitches in SA and Aus are the same for Test Matches as they are for One Day games - therefore the batsmen face the same challenges, therefore these performances are valid.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Ringua said:
Just go though that "bizzare theory" once again, it says none of the asians can do well , so theycan't reach the semis.
No, it actually says that they can be expected to struggle, it never said they couldn't reach the semis.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
anilramavarma said:
How many people tipped India, Pakistan or SL to do well in light of their performances just before the WC?
Erm a fair number did on most message boards and forums I've seen.
 

Andre

International Regular
Ok guys, I think we have established Bazza's predictions were not exactly on the mark.

This thread is going no-where except downhill fast.

Thread closed.
 
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